M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Rungroj Suppagarn]

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I am going to buy M11 this week but I just see this post so... Should I go for M11 or just stay with my M10. but I think I still go for M11 lol. 🤣

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[Photoworks]

11 minutes ago, Rungroj Suppagarn said:

I am going to buy M11 this week but I just see this post so... Should I go for M11 or just stay with my M10. but I think I still go for M11 lol. 🤣

once you go 11 you never go back HAHAHA

 

[M11 for me]

I assume that a small "minority" only has big freezing problems. The chance is very big that you will be super happy with the M11. And indeed its a different beast compared tp M10.

Plus you can talk to your dealer before you buy. Tell him that you want a swap in case of problems. By no means a "repair" in Wetzlar.

[chris7273]

1 hour ago, Rungroj Suppagarn said:

I am going to buy M11 this week but I just see this post so... Should I go for M11 or just stay with my M10. but I think I still go for M11 lol. 🤣

New M11 here : one week of use, no problems. no freeze. maybe not enough to convince a potential new owner but I am happy and would do it again 🙂 

last firmware installed.

Edited January 25, 2023 by chris7273

[Rungroj Suppagarn]

6 minutes ago, chris7273 said:

New M11 here : one week of use, no problems. no freeze. maybe not enough to convince a potential new owner but I am happy and would do it again 🙂 

last firmware installed.

thanks ! Looking for post images forum soon. 🥰

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, Rungroj Suppagarn said:

I am going to buy M11 this week but I just see this post so... Should I go for M11 or just stay with my M10. but I think I still go for M11 lol. 🤣

Your chances getting a healthy m11 is bigger so go ahead and enjoy 😂😂😂👍

[lct]

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Paranoid rumors have been flying around about freezes here. Not sure how cameras like mine can work flawlessly if hardware defects were the culprit. Leica said they are working on a firmware update so let's them work with hope things will be sorted out sooner than for firmware 1.6.

[Herr Barnack]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:20 AM, charlesphoto99 said:

I’m sorry, but this is what one calls ‘losing the plot.’ If Leica can’t make a $9k camera body that works with all memory cards on the market, then they have lost the plot. If users excuse that and think that Leica should red dot a card and then sell it at (most likely) 2-3X the price, they’ve lost the plot. If Leica can’t get the basics right (no freezes, instant start time, qc out of the box, etc) then they have no business adding more bells and whistles to the M. 

It’s a hardware defect, either under specced for the function, and/or faulty. Leica most likely know this, but aren’t about to announce it to the world and are hoping that eventually they can come up with a firmware solution and/or replace enough of the faulty ones so the whole thing eventually goes away (and users trade in their 11’s for the 12 because it’s so much better, lol). SD cards, user profiles, uncoded lenses  etc etc are all red herrings imo. 

It does beggar the question - when and where will we start seeing refurbished M11’s as so many are being exchanged? What happens to those otherwise perfectly good bodies? Salvaged for parts? 

Upon further reflection , @charlesphoto99 does make a valid point. 

$9000 USDs is a lot of USDs.  At that price, it is not unreasonable to expect 100% functionality. 

The lock ups are "not a statistically significant issue" - as long as it's not your M11 that is locking up. 

YMMV.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[jdlaing]

$9,000 is relative. For some it’s a couple weeks pay. For others it’s much much more than that which begs the question whether they should be anywhere near this brand. $9,000 doesn’t mean a perfect product any more than any other luxury product. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

[charlesphoto99]

3 hours ago, jdlaing said:

$9,000 is relative. For some it’s a couple weeks pay. For others it’s much much more than that which begs the question whether they should be anywhere near this brand. $9,000 doesn’t mean a perfect product any more than any other luxury product. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

I guess this proves Leica is just a lifestyle luxury brand now, built to document one’s resort stay, which could be just as well (and probably better) done on an iPhone. I guess actual photographers, and the history of photographer, don’t matter much anymore…. sigh. 

[jdlaing]

10 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

I guess this proves Leica is just a lifestyle luxury brand now, built to document one’s resort stay, which could be just as well (and probably better) done on an iPhone. I guess actual photographers, and the history of photographer, don’t matter much anymore…. sigh. 

It’s still a camera albeit expensive for some. They have progressed to charging whatever they can for it. Tis what it is. 

[setuporg]

5 hours ago, jdlaing said:

$9,000 is relative. For some it’s a couple weeks pay.

Leica is a German Engineering, precision brand.  It's expected to be the apex of craftsmanship.  The problems such as M9 sensor separation, S focus motor debacle, and now M11 freezes are not OK.  This is not a chance you have to take.  This is simply not acceptable.  This is not a Jaguar of which you need two because one is in the shop, because it's not British Engineering.  We must all insist on nothing short of the highest quality.  No matter how many weeks pay it is. 

[M11 for me]

And still we do not know how many M11 freeze. Is it one out of one hundred or are there 10?

Then there is a second point: When your camera belongs to the freezing group then what does this mean? Does it freeze once a month? Once a week? Or every hour? Or 5 times an hour?

Then we do not know in which cases the customers got an exchange M11 that eventually worked fine.

Questions over questions. And here we have already 45 pages of posts. 

And I presume that most people here know very well how to defend themselves. There are consumer rights. When your M11 freezes 5 times an hour or in a frequency that is unacceptable to you then give it back. It should be (1) either fixed or (2) exchanged or (3) you get your money back. Or (4) you accept how it works and you expect a future firmware fix.

And regarding all these complaints about exorbitant Leica prices. You knew the price before you bought your M11. You wanted to have that M11 and you gave all your money to the dealer. So do not complain.

And a last point. I am a Leica shooter and a Canon shooter. In 2021 I exchanged my 5D Mk IV to an R5. And in 2022 I exchanged my M10 to the M11. In both cases I paid a very similar price. How is this pissible? The Canon lost much more of its value than the Leica did. There is actually nothing to complain about.

[SJH]

2 hours ago, setuporg said:

Leica is a German Engineering, precision brand.  It's expected to be the apex of craftsmanship.  The problems such as M9 sensor separation, S focus motor debacle, and now M11 freezes are not OK.  This is not a chance you have to take.  This is simply not acceptable.  This is not a Jaguar of which you need two because one is in the shop, because it's not British Engineering.  We must all insist on nothing short of the highest quality.  No matter how many weeks pay it is. 

Whilst I understand what you are endeavouring to articulate I think in the real world the M11 is actually both engineering and essentially ‘software’. I suspect the bodies and lenses are made to the highest possible tolerance for camera equipment but even global corporations, who spend billions on software, take out extensive support contracts because despite the expense the stuff still goes wrong.

For example Apple are generally considered to make the best notebook hardware but their MacBooks still freeze.

Equally, as referred to above, we really don’t know the scale of the issue e.g. one freeze in 6 months is no big deal but say 5 per week is. Surely though all western consumers buying £8k Leica’s know their rights? You buy an M11 from Leica, it keeps freezing as reported here, by probably a small minority, why don’t you just take it back and get it exchanged? My M11 has been flawless but just like anything else with software/firmware I except a percentage to go wrong. I like the way Matt Day sums it up in his video here:

 

Occasional freezing, not that bothered, gone really with 1.6 for him.

If it’s hardware well, in Europe & the US at least, that’s going to be a material issue for all the emplacements that Leica is going to have to fund, it could be armageddon for them. Reading between the lines I think Leica are accepting there are still some minor freezing issues with 1.6 but hopefully they’re on top of this and 1.7 will bring an end to 45 pages so far. As I said above out of my M10M, M10R and M11 the M11 has been the most reliable to use so far but that doesn’t diminish the fact that some people will have freezing issues but not quite the mass hysteria that’s been generated so far.

Buy an M11 from Leica, give it some use like any other hardware/software if it doesn’t perform to spec then return it and get a new one or a refund. In Europe you have a fundamental right to this as long as you can demonstrate the issue e.g. take a pic of the frozen camera screen with your iPhone, make notes of the date and time etc. Let’s also not forget that the M10 freezing posts went on for 5 years with the last in this forum in February 2022 but the consensus was it was a very reliable camera generally, with a few inevitable software issues here and there like any other high end product that has it.

Edited January 26, 2023 by SJH

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, setuporg said:

Leica is a German Engineering, precision brand.  It's expected to be the apex of craftsmanship.  The problems such as M9 sensor separation, S focus motor debacle, and now M11 freezes are not OK.  This is not a chance you have to take.  This is simply not acceptable.  This is not a Jaguar of which you need two because one is in the shop, because it's not British Engineering.  We must all insist on nothing short of the highest quality.  No matter how many weeks pay it is. 

I don’t like car analogies. But since it’s there,  do you really expect a Ferrari to be more troublefree out of the box than a Toyota AyGo? Seriously? Because of the price? 

[Adam Bonn]

31 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I don’t like car analogies. But since it’s there,  do you really expect a Ferrari to be more troublefree out of the box than a Toyota AyGo? Seriously? Because of the price? 

One tends to buy a sports car / high end watch as a status symbol and not actually drive it at 300kph or take it 300 metres under the ocean.

That’s Leica’s luxury/tool problem… the buyers actually want to use it for what it was designed to do so they notice any issues 😅 

[jaapv]

Speak for yourself. I would buy a luxury sports car for the driving, if needed on a circuit. Not necessarily under water, though… As for watches, I think that that is an even worse analogy 🥸

[Fotoklaus]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb jqian6:

I have a Patek but I’m not expecting it is more accurate or reliable than my $200 Casio G-Shock.

that’s is my value proposition on luxury products 

But the $ 9000 M11 and a $ 1500 Sony share the same technology. You won´t buy a $ 9000 G-Shock in a Patek Housing, which doesn´t work.

Or maybe you will, as it has "Patek"  on the housing...

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[Adam Bonn]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Speak for yourself. I would buy a luxury sports car for the driving, if needed on a circuit.

well that's the rub isn't it? A track day enthusiast would own a single seater track car, a trailer and a street car - something good for towing the trailer... A sports car enthusiast with a nice street car might do the occasional track day and s/he would notice if it broke down, but might not notice if the traction and brakes weren't quite up to the quoted spec

As an ex motorcycle enthusiast I've had fun taking bikes around circuits and less fun getting busted going to fast on the road, but the performance envelope of a high performance vehicle isn't something many folks will spend a lot of time experiencing (at some circuits even an F1 car is only at 100% full throttle for less than 50% of the lap)

If a Leica M enthusiast was like a sports car enthusiast s/he might only shoot 100 shots a year and have no problems, but in reality M enthusiasts are using their cameras at full throttle a lot of the time and noticing any shortcomings (something as a forum and a community we're rather good at actually 😅)

[jaapv]

Plenty of those 100 shot users  But the key word you use is enthusiast. I think that is far more appropriate don’t you think. Maybe Morgan is the better comparison. I drove one as main car for decades.