New Leica M6 Film Camera

[waltron]

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I was in a local second hand camera shop that specialises in Leica today. We chatted about the rumours and they seemed very sure that it was an M6 Classic limited reissue. No tweaks, no higher shutter speeds and a limited run. They weren't sure if it would be sold bundled with a lens.

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[hdmesa]

14 hours ago, Crem said:

Good thing LUF doesn’t have built in rumors gambling. I imagine I would lose a lot of money 😂

I’m betting on…

October: no new film M camera, the SL3 with a new prime lens, and a re-issue vintage 35mm M lens. They would make a fortune re-issuing a 35 1.4 limited edition in black paint and general availability in silver. Plus it would likely be easier to manufacturer than a 35 APO M. Easy money for Leica.

2023: M6 classic remake. 

 

Leica should restrict the limited numbers to silver like they did with the 50 1.2 Noct, because who cares about the silver. Let the rest of us mere mortals have access to the black paint lenses, FFS. 

[Huss]

1 hour ago, waltron said:

I was in a local second hand camera shop that specialises in Leica today. We chatted about the rumours and they seemed very sure that it was an M6 Classic limited reissue. No tweaks, no higher shutter speeds and a limited run. They weren't sure if it would be sold bundled with a lens.

Doesn’t it seem that Leica bundles all it’s limited edition cameras w a lens?

[logan2z]

3 hours ago, waltron said:

I was in a local second hand camera shop that specialises in Leica today. We chatted about the rumours and they seemed very sure that it was an M6 Classic limited reissue. No tweaks, no higher shutter speeds and a limited run. They weren't sure if it would be sold bundled with a lens.

Still not sure I get the rationale behind re-releasing an M6 of any kind when the MP already exists.  What's the point?

Edited September 10, 2022 by logan2z

[Huss]

2 hours ago, logan2z said:

Still not sure I get the rationale behind re-releasing an M6 of any kind when the MP already exists.  What's the point?

I agree, the only point would be to cash in.

[Crem]

2 hours ago, logan2z said:

Still not sure I get the rationale behind re-releasing an M6 of any kind when the MP already exists.  What's the point?

20th anniversary of when it was discontinued. I think close to 40 year anniversary from when it was launched. Leica cares a lot about heritage so it seems like a smart business decision. I might have the dates slightly incorrect. Pretty sure 2023 and 2024 are the years, but I don’t recall exactly. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Crem

[grahamc]

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Most likely thing being commemorated here is used M6 prices hitting $3500 😌😂

 

[adan]

3 hours ago, logan2z said:

Still not sure I get the rationale behind re-releasing an M6 of any kind when the MP already exists.  What's the point?

About the same as the point for this.....

https://www.cameraquest.com/leicam6j.htm

1994 - M6 tarted up to (mostly) look like an M3 for the 40th anniversary of the M system (and M3). Even though the M6 and M3 "already existed."

Also included the revival of the 50mm Elmar(-M) f/2.8 (previously mentioned here), and the creation of the .85x viewfinder - both of which became regular-production options for a decade or so.

Never underestimate the value of the "gotta keep my collection up to date or the other collectors win" and/or "gotta always have the newest thing" markets, when it comes to Leica.

Also, there is some desire for the M4-through-M6/7's continuous-motion rapid-rewind crank, as opposed to the MP's grip-and-turn-and-grip-and-turn knob.

[raizans]

Would the universe implode if the new camera had motor wind?

[madNbad]

12 hours ago, Huss said:

Someone is trying to sell a CM for almost $4k on fredmiranda.com.  Not even in ‘mint’ condition.  A new $2k CM type camera would do well.

It’s really amazing how Leica warps our ideas as to what is good value!

Gen Z buyers are changing the market for film cameras. Having grown up with a phone in hand and a camera always available, moving to film adds a challenge but not too much challenge. Cameras with meters sell well and bringing back a CM style camera would attract the buyers who are looking for a Contax T3. A rugged, water resistant composite body with matrix metering and a new version of the CL 40 mm for around two grand would fill that spot.

[Huss]

59 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Gen Z buyers are changing the market for film cameras. Having grown up with a phone in hand and a camera always available, moving to film adds a challenge but not too much challenge. Cameras with meters sell well and bringing back a CM style camera would attract the buyers who are looking for a Contax T3. A rugged, water resistant composite body with matrix metering and a new version of the CL 40 mm for around two grand would fill that spot.

I'd buy that.

Would I buy a tarted up limited edition M6 when I already have an MP?  Not unless my only interest was to flip it.

[jukka]

3 hours ago, adan said:

Never underestimate the value of the "gotta keep my collection up to date or the other collectors win" and/or "gotta always have the newest thing" markets, when it comes to Leica.

Indeed, I would add that a re-release m6  would be very similar to the re-release of the noktilux 50 1.2. 

From a practical point of view, where was the sense in that? Leica already sports the 50 0.95 nokti, the summilux, the apo, the cron. 

The point is that their brand is build on nostalgia, history, and tradition. By re-releasing old stuff, they emphasise this fact, while not creating competition to their current lineup.

Weather they offer an mp or an m6 doesn’t really matter, as long as it doesn’t compete with their digital bodies. A body with an electronic AE shutter and speeds up to 1/4000s would in a sense do this.

Regarding the new 1.2 nokti, their marketing also made it clear that it’s in a category of its own; a nostalgia piece that you want (need) to buy in addition to your existing fifties.

[logan2z]

4 hours ago, adan said:

About the same as the point for this.....

https://www.cameraquest.com/leicam6j.htm

1994 - M6 tarted up to (mostly) look like an M3 for the 40th anniversary of the M system (and M3). Even though the M6 and M3 "already existed."

The difference there was that, in 1994, the M6 was the current model of Leica film camera.  Releasing an M6 special edition now would be like releasing a special edition of the M9 now - the camera has been superseded by newer/better models. 

Quote

Never underestimate the value of the "gotta keep my collection up to date or the other collectors win" and/or "gotta always have the newest thing" markets, when it comes to Leica.

That could be it.  Maybe Leica will release an M6 LE with flare-prone finder, bubbly zinc top plate and a meter circuit for which no spare parts exist, just for old time's sake 😉

[Matlock]

3 minutes ago, logan2z said:

That could be it.  Maybe Leica will release an M6 LE with bubbly zinc top plate just for old time's sake 😉

I would go for that as I have never seen an M6 with a bubbly zinc top nor do I know anyone who has. Of course I have seen pictures, but never the real thing. 🙂 

[madNbad]

3 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I would go for that as I have never seen an M6 with a bubbly zinc top nor do I know anyone who has. Of course I have seen pictures, but never the real thing. 🙂 

I had a M6 TTL that developed zinc oxidation. Fortunately for me, it happened at the peak of the 2008 recession combined with the great analog selling spree. I traded it and six hundred usd to KEH for an unused Millennium.

Several years later, after a lot of upgrades and plenty of use, the Millennium went to a new owner.

[adan]

11 hours ago, logan2z said:

The difference there was that, in 1994, the M6 was the current model of Leica film camera.  Releasing an M6 special edition now would be like releasing a special edition of the M9 now - the camera has been superseded by newer/better models.

Not much difference - 95% of the MP is identical to the M6 (and vice versa). Put a canted rewind crank (and associated top plate with the correct shape) and a plastic-tipped advance lever on the MP (as Leica would do, for a price, in the "a la carte" era) and - presto, instant M6 (for all practical purposes). One could buy an M7 with MP knobs and levers on it.) All those are swappable parts - folks were finding old M2/M3 all-metal wind levers and getting them installed on their M4s through M6s for decades. And vice-versa.

The idea that Leica will reintroduce the M6 exactly, with its specific flaws, according to 1985 technology, is idiocy - it would cost MORE than simply using the current semi-mass-produced RF/VF and other parts of the MP/M-A, that Leica already makes.

Everything that Leica "reintroduces" is roughly akin to Volkswagen's "new Beetle" compared to the originals. Since lenses are simpler, and don't have to conform to updated road-safety laws, they are closer reproductions, but not in any way perfect copies. Glass types no longer exist, metal alloys are no longer generally available, the CNC milling machines at Uwe Weller are far different than the hand-operated machines at Leitz.

The "new" Noctilux f/1.2 uses molded ASPHs, not the hand-ground aspherics of 1966 (nor, for that matter, are the glass thicknesses or types exactly the same) - it is a re-designed "close approximation" of the original using 21st-century materials and techniques. And a "new" M6 would be the same. Maybe not milled brass, but not stamped zinc either.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, adan said:

The idea that Leica will reintroduce the M6 exactly, with its specific flaws, according to 1985 technology, is idiocy 

Umm, it was a joke. 

[Crem]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Not much difference - 95% of the MP is identical to the M6 (and vice versa). Put a canted rewind crank (and associated top plate with the correct shape) and a plastic-tipped advance lever on the MP (as Leica would do, for a price, in the "a la carte" era) and - presto, instant M6 (for all practical purposes). One could buy an M7 with MP knobs and levers on it.) All those are swappable parts - folks were finding old M2/M3 all-metal wind levers and getting them installed on their M4s through M6s for decades. And vice-versa.

The idea that Leica will reintroduce the M6 exactly, with its specific flaws, according to 1985 technology, is idiocy - it would cost MORE than simply using the current semi-mass-produced RF/VF and other parts of the MP/M-A, that Leica already makes.

Everything that Leica "reintroduces" is roughly akin to Volkswagen's "new Beetle" compared to the originals. Since lenses are simpler, and don't have to conform to updated road-safety laws, they are closer reproductions, but not in any way perfect copies. Glass types no longer exist, metal alloys are no longer generally available, the CNC milling machines at Uwe Weller are far different than the hand-operated machines at Leitz.

The "new" Noctilux f/1.2 uses molded ASPHs, not the hand-ground aspherics of 1966 (nor, for that matter, are the glass thicknesses or types exactly the same) - it is a re-designed "close approximation" of the original using 21st-century materials and techniques. And a "new" M6 would be the same. Maybe not milled brass, but not stamped zinc either.

My expectation is exactly what you said. A M6 re-issue that is a set of cosmetic changes to the MP. Anything else would cost a small fortune in engineering time and tooling for what is a very niche product. I do hope it has a rewind crank instead of a knob. This is probably the bulk of the work to make an MP into a M6. No chance it will end up being a cheaper camera. 

 

 

 

 

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[logan2z]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

 But M6, being a cult classic, surely a re-release of any sorts in 2022 could be a huge hit, especially with that rewind crank...

So an M6 reissue will just be an MP with an M6 badge glued on and an angled rewind crank?  If that's enough for collectors to open their wallets then I guess that's good news for Leica. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by logan2z

[Crem]

41 minutes ago, logan2z said:

So an M6 reissue will just be an MP with an M6 badge glued on and an angled rewind crank?  If that's enough for collectors to open their wallets then I guess that's good news for Leica. 

What do you expect or want it to be?

The MP is a M6 classic with improvements. I can’t imagine downgrading it would make collectors happy. 

Personally my dream is a MP with a larger diameter shutter dial with reversed direction. That would be a M6 TTL remake of sorts, but in a MP body. Clearly not going to happen so I’ll keep dreaming.