New Leica M6 Film Camera

[adan]

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3 minutes ago, Sunyforreal said:

A film Leica Q priced at about $3,699 would put it at about the same price delta as the MP compared to the M11.

hdmesa has now covered this:

Hmmm - how would a film Q handle the fact that the 28mm f/1.7 lens has an enormous amount of native barrel (fisheye) distortion, which is removed by digital processing in the camera? It is a closed ecosystem dependent on being a digital camera.

https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/LEICA/LeicaM/LeicaQ-distortion-Dolls.html?dglyPT=true

Or the fact that the Q only has a digital viewfinder?

I suppose Leica could produce "a Q-like object" with a permanent 28mm lens of a different design, and an optical viewfinder.

41 minutes ago, jsrockit said:

Why would they need that though if they already have the M-A?  The camera that has skyrocketed on the used market is the M6 and M6 TTL.  Leica has noticed this I am sure.  

Well, that is why I have my doubts about a new film Leica. I think it is mostly click-bait from influencer-wannabees. Plus a certain amount of confusing "wishful thinking" for real-world marketing and engineering.

As to the M6s, either the buyers understand that those could turn into a zinc M-A at some point (meter dies, no longer repairable).

Or are simply "Mr. Toads," who jump into whatever the newest fad is, without actually knowing what they are getting into. I imagine most people here know a contemporary Mr. Toad or two.

https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Mr._Toad

When Leica Rumors kicked off the "new, cheaper M6" craze about 15 months ago, about the only reason I though Leica had for doing that was to revive the rewind crank in place of the MP's knob. An MP6. But it would not be significantly less expensive.

[Sunyforreal]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

They couldn't correct the Q lens distortion on film, so there would be no cheating. That means the cost would be either 28 Lux ($7.8K USD) or Cron ($5.1K USD) cost plus the film body (6K USD). A film Q would be very expensive if they stuck with a high quality 28. 

Fair point. The money saved by using a basic OVF could be put towards a more improved lens formula, maybe with slight reduction in max aperture. And it wouldn’t need as premium materials as an M since the stigma would not be as present. Fixed lens cameras are inherently cheaper than interchangeable lens cameras anyways. So maybe something Leica Q-esque, with an autofocus 28mm f/2 therabouts, and an OVF, wrapped and packed in Portugal, for at or around $4k?

Edited September 5, 2022 by Sunyforreal

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[adan]

A road Leica has been down before. Less-expensive film camera, vaguely M-shaped, fixed lens (a zoom, but that could be changed).

Made by Panasonic in an early joint venture. There were also C2 and C3 versions. Did not exactly cut a swath through the marketplace.

Maybe it was just ahead of its time.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/C1

[hdmesa]

46 minutes ago, Sunyforreal said:

Fair point. The money saved by using a basic OVF could be put towards a more improved lens formula, maybe with slight reduction in max aperture. And it wouldn’t need as premium materials as an M since the stigma would not be as present. Fixed lens cameras are inherently cheaper than interchangeable lens cameras anyways. So maybe something Leica Q-esque, with an autofocus 28mm f/2 therabouts, and an OVF, wrapped and packed in Portugal, for at or around $4k?

I think the Leica mechanical rangefinder is more expensive than an EVF, or at least not less expensive. There would be no getting away from the the body being basically the same as a current film M, rangefinder and all. So it kind of begs the question as to what would be the point of a fixed lens film camera unless they make it as 6x7 medium format.

Think of it this way: the current film M cameras are the cost of the M11 minus the cost of the sensor. I don’t think there is any way around that unless they make an SLR-M instead of a rangefinder.

[Sunyforreal]

12 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I think the Leica mechanical rangefinder is more expensive than an EVF, or at least not less expensive. There would be no getting away from the the body being basically the same as a current film M, rangefinder and all. So it kind of begs the question as to what would be the point of a fixed lens film camera unless they make it as 6x7 medium format.

Think of it this way: the current film M cameras are the cost of the M11 minus the cost of the sensor. I don’t think there is any way around that unless they make an SLR-M instead of a rangefinder.

It doesn’t need the mechanical rangefinder though. Since it’s replicating a Leica Q, it’d have an autofocus lens. And it’ll be differentiated enough from the M not to take sales from it. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Sunyforreal

[hdmesa]

11 minutes ago, Sunyforreal said:

It doesn’t need the rangefinder though. Since it’s replicating a Leica Q, it’d have an autofocus lens. And it’ll be differentiated enough from the M not to take sales from it. 

Then yes, the cost savings of removing the sensor, EVF (they would use just a fixed viewfinder like a film point and shoot), and electronics not related to exposure and AF would probably help cost-wise, but the expense of creating an AF version of the 28 Lux or Cron would be high, and the size of the lens would be too large, IMO. 

So if you’re thinking a fixed lens film Q would need to be cheap, then they’d have to look at a 28 f/2.8 over an f/2 or f/1.4. Or — they outsource the lens design to Sigma or Panasonic, which wouldn’t be such a bad idea.

Edited September 5, 2022 by hdmesa

[hdmesa]

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37 minutes ago, adan said:

A road Leica has been down before. Less-expensive film camera, vaguely M-shaped, fixed lens (a zoom, but that could be changed).

Made by Panasonic in an early joint venture. There were also C2 and C3 versions. Did not exactly cut a swath through the marketplace.

Maybe it was just ahead of its time.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/C1

Yeah, the market for a P&S AF film camera with average optics at Leica prices has been long dead. 

Fuji made a few 6x7 AF P&S cameras — not as desirable as their older fixed lens 6x7/6x9 manual focus rangefinders, IMO.

Edited September 5, 2022 by hdmesa

[Giguchan]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:57 PM, 250swb said:

If it's a cheap replacement for the MP that is great news because it will increase the resale price of an MP. But why people are gagging for it I don't understand unless it has some sort of revolutionary features that make it better and cheaper than a secondhand M6.

Good news  if you're planning on selling your MP..

[madNbad]

Leica comes out with the $20,000 usd MA Titan and sells the entire run in one day so why do we continue to believe they have any interest in an affordable M body? It’s like looking for an affordable house in St. Moritz. 

[MarkP]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:18 AM, Herr Barnack said:

More fuel for the speculative fires: 

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/leica-could-announce-new-film-camera-in-october-will-it-be-the-leica-m-e?utm_medium=flipdigest.ad.20220901.carousel&utm_source=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=campaign

They’re only quoting Leica Rumours so still only one source so far

[Huss]

On 9/4/2022 at 1:24 PM, ianman said:

Ilford PAN400 is even cheaper… and it can be bought in 30,5m rolls which further reduces the cost. I like it a lot.

Where do you buy it?  I don't see it at any US stores, nor at macodirect.de or fotoimpex.com or analoguewonderland..

[Huss]

8 hours ago, adan said:

 

I suppose Leica could produce "a Q-like object" with a permanent 28mm lens of a different design, and an optical viewfinder.

 

Sounds like the Fuji Klasse W that I already have.

[Huss]

20 hours ago, adan said:

As to cheaper - well, what happened to the Voigtländer Bessas and Zeiss-Ikon? They were inexpensive, but they still died fairly rapidly in the marketplace.

I owned the Bessa R3A and the Zeiss Ikon ZM as well as my Leicas.  I much prefer my M7, sold the CV cameras.  The Bessa just did not feel nice in hand, and everything was clunky.  Also the VF was not as good and the meter read out was hard to see.  I just couldn't see why I'd use it when I had Ms, so it was sold.

The Zeiss Ikon ZM?  Bigger vf that the reviewers bally hoo.  But because it is bigger, you need to have your eye perfectly centered to be able to focus it, so these things can be too big if you are relying on an RF patch to focus!  In daylight the meter read-out was very hard to see (Leica M7 very easy to see).  But worse of all - and no reviewers mention this - the RF patch does not move with the frame lines when you focus!  So it is not always centered.  I found this really annoying because when I shoot I use the RF patch as a point of reference for the composition as with Leicas it is always centered.  With Leicas, when you focus, the rf patch moves with the frame lines.

It was just such a cheap move with the ZM to not have that.  The body also felt flimsy and cheap compared to an M, and so it was sold.  The metal shutter on the ZM was I guess a little louder/sharper sounding but that did not bother me.  I'd prefer a sharper/louder shutter that hits at least 1/4000 sec in a film M than the current cloth shutter.  Especially in the M7 as it is a more modern camera than the MP.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Huss

[graphlex]

6 hours ago, adan said:

A road Leica has been down before. Less-expensive film camera, vaguely M-shaped, fixed lens (a zoom, but that could be changed).

Made by Panasonic in an early joint venture. There were also C2 and C3 versions. Did not exactly cut a swath through the marketplace.

Maybe it was just ahead of its time.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/C1

The C2 was pretty good for the price. Decent lens, too. Mine was $165 new. 

[AAK]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:45 PM, andrew01 said:

Maybe they could delay release until 2023 and call it the M6 ‘23’ commemorating the 23rd ‘special edition’.  Production strictly limited to 23000 cameras. Special price $23000.

And let's remember that 2x3=6. So, for the numerologists, it's very significant.

[Lord Wilmore]

On 9/4/2022 at 9:58 PM, IkarusJohn said:

I’m not saying it’s a good idea.

I just can’t see how or why Leica would make a new film camera that is “cheaper”.  An MP with aperture priority added makes more sense, but it won’t be cheap.

Someone already said that the M6 is coming back. Just trust him, hes always been right so far. 
He also said it won’t be cheap. And he said it wont be just a simple M6. It will be more than that. 

[Sunyforreal]

2 hours ago, Lord Wilmore said:

Someone already said that the M6 is coming back. Just trust him, hes always been right so far. 
He also said it won’t be cheap. And he said it wont be just a simple M6. It will be more than that. 

“He Who Must Not Be Named”

[Al Brown]

2024 marks the 40th anniversary of M6 launch... I bet Leica will treat us with something analog then as well.

[R6M6]

What not a Film CL type of camera with a fixend Bi-Elmar 28-50? I would like it!

Edited September 7, 2022 by R6M6

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[mole73]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Al Brown:

2024 marks the 40th anniversary of M6 launch... I bet Leica will treat us with something analog then as well.

2023 marks the 20th anniversary of the MP launch... 😉

Edited September 7, 2022 by mole73