Mute-on Posted August 13, 2022 Share #21 Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 13 hours ago, Chris W said: Hmm, it's hard to know. I had a 14 day window to return the camera and that has long gone. There is a 6 month warranty. I switched to electronic shutter (which I'm not a huge fan of), tested using hand held AND a tripod. There is not much difference between the two. Autofocus and manual. If I zoom in on one of my M240 shots, at 200%, I can still see sharp aspects. If I look at an SL shot, it looks in focus zoomed out, my editor (Capture One) focus mask indicates parts of the image are in focus, but when I zoom in it seems a bit soft to me. Or if there are sharp elements, they are fewer than I would expect at f5.6. I've been assuming user error, which is why I didn't return the camera immediately. It is likely that the 14 day window relates to a return because you don’t like the camera. It would be disingenuous to limit a return period to 14 days when a camera is plain faulty. Why are you persevering? Are you avoiding confrontation or disappointment (understandable but not warranted)? Just return it. Edited August 13, 2022 by Mute-on Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 13, 2022 Posted August 13, 2022 Hi Mute-on, Take a look here SL Woes. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Chris W Posted August 13, 2022 Author Share #22 Posted August 13, 2022 I'm avoiding returning it because I actually want to use the camera. I usually presume user error, lack of experience with a new system before I presume something is faulty. The well known dealer rated it as 9 - excellent. I was wondering how I could resolve it and realised I could test against my full frame Sigma FP. I guess it's no surprise the SL shows up any inadequacies in the Sigma 45mm lens, although it is reputed to be very sharp. My M mount 50mm is sharp on the SL even with manual focussing. The Sigma 45mm has a quicker sharpness fall off, and my impression is that the SL is not focussing EXACTLY at the point I'm aiming. Maybe the single point focus on the SL is still somewhat wide? On the FP, my 45mm is sharp and across a larger focus plane. The M mount 50mm lens a bit less sharp, probably due to my manual focus inaccuracy. Compared to the FP, the SL is not blowing me away. I prefer my M240, but for some jobs I need an auto-focussing camera with a mechanical shutter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted August 13, 2022 Share #23 Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) Chris W, Both myself at post #6 and Helged at his post #8, Trickness at his post #20 and others gave you very sound advice based on extensive experience with the SL system. Your SL should create tack sharp images no matter with AF or manual focus, Leica brand or third party lenses. Your lenses are not the problem, nor technique...the camera is defective, return it and get another one or an SL2 from a Leica dealer. MBP sold you a defective used SL camera body, it happens. Once you get another SL or SL2 then go out and create some excellent photographs rather than waste your time wondering if it is you. r/ Mark Edited August 13, 2022 by LeicaR10 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted August 13, 2022 Share #24 Posted August 13, 2022 A few thoughts. Have you asked Leica Service about the history of your camera? Maybe it has a history of problems, or it is still under warranty from a previous repair. Have you updated the camera's firmware? One issue when the SL first came out is that the AF point in the viewfinder didn't always match the patch that the camera was focusing on. This was fixed in an early firmware update. The latest firmware version for the SL is 3.8. Try setting the diopter again. Rest your eyes and set it again. Repeat until you consistently set it to the same value/notch). It's not as easy as it seems. It's nearly impossible if you have strong astigmatism. You might find that you are much more comfortable focusing a rangefinder, or on a screen, than you are with a viewfinder. It's not particularly unusual, but it's something that non-photographers might not be aware of, like colour-blindness. My other suggestion is to ask a photographer friend if they can reproduce the problem. I don't mean to imply that you are doing something wrong (you aren't), but it's good to get a second opinion. I agree with everyone else that the camera is probably faulty. The focus plane shifts when the exposure is made, so there must be something loose (or broken) in the shutter/sensor mechanism. Your dealer is reputable, they'll take it back and refund you if that's the case. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted August 13, 2022 Author Share #25 Posted August 13, 2022 I have tried all of the suggestions. I might have to return it. I can't afford an SL2, or I can't justify it anyway. MPB say in their FAQ that if they can't reproduce the issue they will send the camera back to me. I doubt they will try that hard, so I have been wanting to avoid returning it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted August 13, 2022 Author Share #26 Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) Thanks for all the advice. I have requested a return (within the warranty period). If I'm honest I don't expect anything other than me returning the camera at my expense, MPB sitting on it for a few weeks, then returning it back to me saying they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I had already decided I wouldn't deal with them again. Edited August 13, 2022 by Chris W Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted August 13, 2022 Share #27 Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) If MPB can't find a problem with it, perhaps they will exchange it for another SL (since there is nothing wrong with it ). They have a bunch in stock. Edited August 13, 2022 by Luke_Miller Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted August 14, 2022 Share #28 Posted August 14, 2022 (edited) Chris W, If MBP can't either take the SL back or simply exchange it, I would write them off as a viable place to buy anything from them. This would be a simple swap or refund at a Leica Store. If you want to keep the SL, then simply contact or find a Leica store that will ship the camera back for repair at Wetzlar. Your SL is clearly out of adjustment for whatever reason. The only way you are going to get the SL issue resolved is either a swap/return refund or ship to Wetzlar for repair. The SL is an excellent camera and might be worth the repair cost. If you decide to send it for a repair, be sure to send a detailed letter describing the problem and include some photos from a couple different lenses to illustrate the issue(s). Leica will give you an estimate for repairs before proceeding too. Just accept it and make a decision. My long-past experience with firms like MBP and others like on eBay, I do not buy from them...period. I only buy from Leica Stores or reputable Leica dealers that have solid return policies and that included refunds for defective gear. r/ Mark Edited August 14, 2022 by LeicaR10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted August 14, 2022 Author Share #29 Posted August 14, 2022 You are both right. I am fully hoping to just swap the camera for another 'excellent' SL. And indeed, due to other aspects of this transaction (I haven't gone into) I had already decided not to use MPB again. I have bought and sold a lot with Wex (with good customer service) and a couple of other more reputable Leica independents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 14, 2022 Share #30 Posted August 14, 2022 I know it is not relevant to @Chris W's experience, but for the record, I have bought and sold through MPB quite a few times without problems. And, even more peripherally, I have bought and sold cameras and lenses on ebay. The only problem I had was a Rolleiflex T I sold that was returned because the lens had fungus (it had, and I hadn't noticed). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted August 14, 2022 Author Share #31 Posted August 14, 2022 I have all fingers and toes crossed they will accept a straight exchange. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted August 14, 2022 Share #32 Posted August 14, 2022 Good luck! I've been an M shooter since the M8.2 was released. Recently bought a used SL to see what it was all about. I love it. Have since added an SL2. They don't replace my Ms, but are a wonderful addition. Hope you can get one that works for you. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huwm Posted August 14, 2022 Share #33 Posted August 14, 2022 11 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: I know it is not relevant to @Chris W's experience, but for the record, I have bought and sold through MPB quite a few times without problems. And, even more peripherally, I have bought and sold cameras and lenses on ebay. The only problem I had was a Rolleiflex T I sold that was returned because the lens had fungus (it had, and I hadn't noticed). No problems with MPB and eBay either Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted August 14, 2022 Share #34 Posted August 14, 2022 I got a 24-90mm from MBP it was clearly defective, the zoom was not turning, returned it. They buy and sell equipment without inspecting it much... I will stay away 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted August 16, 2022 Author Share #35 Posted August 16, 2022 OK, after a bit of back and forth, MPB are just picking up the SL body and giving me a full refund. Which I guess is a good outcome. Most available SL bodies I see around the reputable outlets are more than I paid MPB. So, should I buy again and pay more? I'm surprised an original Q is even more expensive (used). I loved mine, but didn't want to be stuck with 28mm. A Q2 or SL-2 are out of my budget. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 16, 2022 Share #36 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chris W said: OK, after a bit of back and forth, MPB are just picking up the SL body and giving me a full refund. Which I guess is a good outcome. Most available SL bodies I see around the reputable outlets are more than I paid MPB. So, should I buy again and pay more? I'm surprised an original Q is even more expensive (used). I loved mine, but didn't want to be stuck with 28mm. A Q2 or SL-2 are out of my budget. The SL2-S is a bit less expensive, and also is sold with bundled lens. If buying used again, stick with reputable Leica dealers; they generally charge more for good reasons. Jeff Edited August 16, 2022 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted August 16, 2022 Share #37 Posted August 16, 2022 I bought my SL and SL2 used from Popflash. They are my go-to dealer, especially for used gear. Currently they have a like new SL with grip at a reasonable price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 16, 2022 Share #38 Posted August 16, 2022 My Leica dealer, Camera West/Leica SF, has also used SL in stock. I recommend them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 16, 2022 Share #39 Posted August 16, 2022 I’ve bought from Popflash and the SF group; both good owners. Likewise, Leica Miami has used SL system bodies. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 16, 2022 Share #40 Posted August 16, 2022 Er....the OP lives in the UK😉 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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