SL Woes

[Chris W]

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I have a lot of experience with Leica digital - M8, CL, M240. I have older M lenses as well as usually tack sharp Sigma L Mount.

I recently purchased a 'nearly new, grade 9' SL from MBP. A lot of my shots so far are soft, or plainly out of focus. I've tried manual focus by eye, manual focus with focus peaking, obviously auto-focus with the Sigma lenses.

I've tried f2 to f8.

I do get in focus results, but at lower f stops the amount in focus is tiny (depending on the distance and the subject). I also have a few out of focus shots made at f5.6 and 200s shutter speed.

Is it user error, more practice needed, or is there any technical issue that could be causing soft focus? My lenses are small on the whole, but maybe the bigger SL body is causing more shutter shake than I think?

I regularly see people claiming they shoot everything 'wide open' and a lot in their frame is sharply in focus.

[helged]

18 minutes ago, Chris W said:

I have a lot of experience with Leica digital - M8, CL, M240. I have older M lenses as well as usually tack sharp Sigma L Mount.

I recently purchased a 'nearly new, grade 9' SL from MBP. A lot of my shots so far are soft, or plainly out of focus. I've tried manual focus by eye, manual focus with focus peaking, obviously auto-focus with the Sigma lenses.

I've tried f2 to f8.

I do get in focus results, but at lower f stops the amount in focus is tiny (depending on the distance and the subject). I also have a few out of focus shots made at f5.6 and 200s shutter speed.

Is it user error, more practice needed, or is there any technical issue that could be causing soft focus? My lenses are small on the whole, but maybe the bigger SL body is causing more shutter shake than I think?

I regularly see people claiming they shoot everything 'wide open' and a lot in their frame is sharply in focus.

On the SL-bodies, as for CL, the electronic viewfinder reads the image from the sensor. So if the EVF is sharp, the resulting image is/should be sharp.

Turn the diopter ring on the EVF to ensure that the text/symbols in the EVF are tick sharp. If not, you will not be able to determine whether the image is sharp or not by looking in the EVF.

Unsharp images come in two variants: Images that are not correctly focussed, or blur due to camera/user movement. It is possible to distinguish between the two by zooming in on an image in Lightroom or your preferred preprocessing software. Blur due to camera/user movement shows up with edges/lines that smeared out in one direction or in an arch; off-focus images are simply soft.

The mechanical shutter may generate some camera movement, so be sure that you use the electronic shutter (in my case I use the electronic shutter for most situations, but not for indoor-shooting).

To eliminate user movement, put the camera on tripod, use the electronic shutter, focus on something with the focus zoom enabled, do the shot and transfer the image to your preferred post processing software. The image should be tick sharp where you put the focus. 

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[frame-it]

probably the diopter?

Edited August 10, 2022 by frame-it

[Chris W]

The diopter does not impact an auto focus lens.

I have adjusted the diopter anyway. Also, I of course manual focus on my M240 without these issues.

I have zoomed in on my computer (raw images in Capture One) and the soft images don't have obvious blurred lines, but yes when all of the image is slightly out of focus it's probably going to be camera shake rather than my focussing (at f5.6).

It just surprises me because all my other bodies (including Sigma FP, CL, M240 etc) have produced mostly sharp images (manual and auto focus). This is the first body I've struggled with.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Chris W

[Chris W]

32 minutes ago, helged said:

 

To eliminate user movement, put the camera on tripod, use the electronic shutter, focus on something with the focus zoom enabled, do the shot and transfer the image to your preferred post processing software. 

I will try that.

I've been using the extended shutter setting, not selecting electronic only. Maybe it's shutter shake.

[LeicaR10]

ChrisW,  Your "nearly new 9 grade" camera has issues.  It was most likely traded/sold to MBP for a reason.  I suggest you return it for a full refund.  Leica has a very good Family and Friends offer for new SL2 and SL2-S camera bundles and SL lenses.  You could buy a new one.  You should not have any issues with soft focus anything if the camera was in proper working order.  Could well be the sensor is out of calibration.  Just my two cents.  r/ Mark

Edited August 10, 2022 by LeicaR10

[LocalHero1953]

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Are your autofocus images also out of focus? And you're checking them downloaded displayed on a monitor? If you are testing on static subjects (British Standard brick wall), then the camera has a problem. I never had shutter shock with the SL, and AF was always accurate with static subjects.

I can't comment on manual focus - there are other factors that come into play: your eyesight, dioptre adjustment etc.

[helged]

1 hour ago, Chris W said:

The diopter does not impact an auto focus lens.

I have adjusted the diopter anyway. Also, I of course manual focus on my M240 without these issues.

I have zoomed in on my computer (raw images in Capture One) and the soft images don't have obvious blurred lines, but yes when all of the image is slightly out of focus it's probably going to be camera shake rather than my focussing (at f5.6).

It just surprises me because all my other bodies (including Sigma FP, CL, M240 etc) have produced mostly sharp images (manual and auto focus). This is the first body I've struggled with.

All SL-bodies should produce tick sharp images. With your experience - and tests - I agree with @LeicaR10that something is off with your body. 

[Photoworks]

the SL camera should not be any different then your Cl camera.

There is probably a problem with your camera.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Try manual focus with magnified live view ... and compare the same subject's AF image. 

[Luke_Miller]

I get best manual focus results on my SL using the Bottom Left (BL) button to zoom in. I use focus peaking but some claim better results without it.  I think focus peaking is not particularly accurate unless zoomed in. At full zoom I can get good wide-open focus results even with ultra-fast lenses that are challenging on the M.

I was not happy with AF performance until I went to AF-S and single field.  Those settings work well consistently. I have no experience with Sigma AF lenses, I use the Leica 24-90 and 35 mm APO.  If you don't have a copy of the SL manual I can hook you up with a PDF version.

[Chris W]

I'm wondering if there is a sensor issue.

I will test it today.

Yes, I almost always use AF-S single field in autofocus. I do have some in focus pictures with both manual and af lenses, but they are much fewer than I have experienced with other camera bodies, and the area in focus seems a lot more shallow, even at f5.6 and f8.

[Chris W]

Hmm, it's hard to know.

I had a 14 day window to return the camera and that has long gone. There is a 6 month warranty.

I switched to electronic shutter (which I'm not a huge fan of), tested using hand held AND a tripod. There is not much difference between the two.

Autofocus and manual.

If I zoom in on one of my M240 shots, at 200%, I can still see sharp aspects. If I look at an SL shot, it looks in focus zoomed out, my editor (Capture One) focus mask indicates parts of the image are in focus, but when I zoom in it seems a bit soft to me. Or if there are sharp elements, they are fewer than I would expect at f5.6.

 

I've been assuming user error, which is why I didn't return the camera immediately.

 

[chrismuc]

I would try to focus on a tilted surface for example with text to determine if you can achieve critical sharpness somewhere … or nowhere. If somewhere, might be an AF issue, if nowhere a general sensor problem. 

[Stuart Richardson]

You can also wind up having weird focus issues if the lens mount is not perfectly parallel to the sensor. This can happen if the camera is hit or dropped, even if damage is not visible. If the lens mount is not plane parallel, it can still achieve focus in one area, but not be consistent across the frame. I had this once with a used R6 I bought. Leica fixed it.

I think the true test is using the camera on a tripod with an electric shutter, just to rule out everything else, but I agree that in general achieving focus is not a problem that one typically has in the SL cameras, as they are outputting the exact information off the sensor and the lenses use contrast detect AF, which does not usually fail.

[Stuart Richardson]

By the way, any chance you can post a 100% crop or a link to some DNG's? That would also help us determine if it looks like one might expect from an SL. It might also be helpful to know which lenses you are using, as certain M lenses do not fare quite as well on SL bodies as they do on M bodies. The Sigma should be quite sharp though.

"I regularly see people claiming they shoot everything 'wide open' and a lot in their frame is sharply in focus. "

That statement does worry me slightly though. With higher resolution cameras, apparent DOF should decrease, not increase. Of course, the actual DOF is the same, but as you zoom in more, the more you see the out of focus areas. The SL Summicrons do have incredibly sharp detail across the frame wide open, but the DOF is still small unless you are very far away. But the apparent DOF of the 24mp SL and 24mp M240 should be similar.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[Chris W]

32 minutes ago, chrismuc said:

I would try to focus on a tilted surface for example with text to determine if you can achieve critical sharpness somewhere … or nowhere.

Yes, I already shot a farm gate from 1.5 metres, focussing on an iron plate and screws going across. The left side of the plate was sharp, but the right side was soft, which surprised me at f5.6. I probably shot slightly at an angle, which could explain the left side softness. But I've never had such critical focus issues on my other Leicas.

[OR120]

Have you contacted the store and explained the issues your having ----- ??

[Luke_Miller]

Shot in the dark here.  Do you hear the sensor clean function when you switch the power off? Should be like a shutter click only louder.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[trickness]

I don’t understand this thread at all. The SL is Incredibly easy to focus manually using the EVF. I have a 75 Noctilux and I shoot at wide open all the time - I press on the joystick to zoom in and get critical focus. Pin sharp every single time. And even when I don’t use the joystick, I get focus in the ballpark. It’s so easy I can hand it to someone who has zero experience manually focusing M glass and as they turn the focus ring and look through the EVF they go “oh!” and get it immediately.

If you’re taking pictures that are consistently not in focus with an SL body, there is obviously a technical fault, either with the camera or with the user’s eyesight.