Leica APS-C -- No more!

[ynp]

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8 minutes ago, frame-it said:

wait for an official announcement

Shall we expect it soon?

[frame-it]

20 minutes ago, ynp said:

Shall we expect it soon?

who knows.....but there were 4 camera ids on that FCC list, only 2 [m10r and m11] were released so far

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, Life By Stills said:

Oh gosh, this is a bombshell lol. I just picked up a TL2 which I can still return. I luckily haven't picked up any L-Mount lenses for it yet. The question now is whether I keep it or return it. If they're stopping the APS-C line, it seems like a waste of money right now to be picking up a L-Mount APS-C camera.

if that's what you were looking for and it works for you right now, why return it? I'd keep it if I were you.

but I'd invest into full frame Sigma L mount lenses (for size reasons) or in M lenses for better ability to retain a good value rather than the aps-c lenses.

[Louis]

5 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

It certainly does a difference for me !!  

Honesty is a prerequisite for running a reputable company.  
THANK YOU Louis for saying this so clearly and honestly now Leica official does not have the courage and honesty to do so.  

Back to that it's important to me.  I am for small Leica (M, Q and before APSC) My TL2 and my three lenses I will use until I find an alternative.  

But it is not easy to find a small camera in that quality.  But then I sell my APSC lenses.  TL2 is already almost worthless purely - economically.  

I had otherwise received a good offer on an SL2s in exchange for my Nikon 800E which will never be used again.  

I have now decided I do NOT spend more money on L Mount.  
 

Although APSC has been leica's cheapest, it is the system camera I have lost the most money on.  

I do not feel confident what will happen to l Mount in the future.  And seen with those eyes, the system is too expensive to play with.  

I would not say I do not buy Leica anymore.  I have the Leica M and am very happy with it.  

But I will miss an AF solution in mini format.  Maybe it's going to be the M I have and my Leica story is over.  Too bad.

Louis I hope you stay in the system.  If you do not already have M - it is an expensive system to start on.  I would not do it myself unless it was a necessity for my professional work - and it is not.  
But I already have M so it's cheaper for me to upgrade.  

But maybe Q2 or (Q3) will suit your way of photographing.  
I know you will miss the tele option but maybe Q3 with more pixels and a BSI censor will solve it better than other system camera.  

And that makes you not so dependent on Leica continuing.  Q is Q and easy to sell without huge losses.  

You make such beautiful pictures I enjoy following.

Kim, thank you for your kind words.

For my type for photography, M is not working for me. I tested M10 and although it is  a fantastic camera, I realized it was really not for me. I am mostly shooting in street and need  a AF and small camera. M system is too expensive, anyway. SL is too big and too expensive also.

CL was and is the perfect camera for me. In my discussion with this person in Leica, Wetzlar, I understood that they are planning a system with L mount and smaller than SL. It will not be for soon, but how my TL lenses are going to work with that and what would be the crop! Is it going to be a kind of Interchangeable Q with L mount?

As you know, Leica AG is not run by trusted people and is playing hide and seek with us, and is not very honest. Personally, I am not trusting them anymore! I keep enjoying my trusted CL and my trusted TL lenses for the time being.

I think it is the right time for Sigma to design a small AF APSC camera with EVF and L mount. What they have now need to be redesigned and improved.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Louis

[lct]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

wait for an official announcement

+1. Leica will perhaps announce a solution then. I will keep my CL anyway. The unique digital Barnack deserves certainly more but if i doesn't sell it doesn't sell there's nothing i can do against that.

[Louis]

If they were honest with us, their “official announcement “ must have come months ago!

[frame-it]

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12 minutes ago, lct said:

+1. Leica will perhaps announce a solution then. I will keep my CL anyway. The unique digital Barnack deserves certainly more but if i doesn't sell it doesn't sell there's nothing i can do against that.

im guessing the CL2 already exists, but they're having serious issues with chips and processors etc hence the delay.

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, Louis said:

I understood that they are planning a system with L mount and smaller than SL.

yes, but how much smaller? The S5 is definitely smaller and lighter than a SL2, but also slightly bulkier than other mirrorless like the A7IV.

I wouldn't keep my hopes up for a QL 

[lct]

Nor sure that it is a matter of honesty. If i were Leica i would wait til i can offer a replacement solution, which they have not yet decided i suspect. Just a guess though as i have no spy at Wetzlar .

[frame-it]

this was posted 30seconds ago..

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaSKiFNrCTY/

[papimuzo]

After a photographer life with the M's for decades, I went to become a plain user of the CL's, selling the M system except the lenses.
Through my enthousiasm for the L mount system, the compacity and light weight, the L lens range
- particularly the zooms - and of course the AF availability. With L-M adaptor I could revive some good experiences.
When the M11 appears, it triggered a new buying GAS syndrom... but it was evident that manual focus
was no more for me. So I plunged into the Q2 recently, selling one of the three CL  the familly own, and start a new learning phase.
I am not too angry against  the Leica' management, I cann't forget that the Daniels' familly saved  Leica desappearing from the camera market.
I keep my two CL up to when they became my inheritage and hope (?) for a QL who will well use my L lenses range.. 🙂.

The photography I made is still not sensible to the sensor format (full, apsc,..): I am and rest an amateur... 😉

Good picture to all.

[nicci78]

CIPA just released its 2021 sales figures. 
it was a nightmare. 8.4 millions units. 1 million less than the most pessimistic forecast. 
Compacts camera only accounts for 36% of sales. But their value go up to 186€ thanks premium compact such as X100V or GR III. 

The rest in interchangeable lens camera with an average selling price of less than 600€. Which means that the vast majority 80-85% of sales are APS-C or m4/3 !!! Not full frame. Which is still a minority. 
Should Leica give up on the bulk of sales ? 
 

Without APS-C. Everybody is fighting for only 850,000 units of full frame camera only. That’s almost nothing. 
 

Hopefully interchangeable lens cameras still maintain the same 5 millions units as in 2020. Down from 8M in 2019. 
 

Forecast for 2022 is even worst. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by nicci78

[Foxtwo]

One will never be disappointed by assuming that humans will believe the absolute worst in any situation. I guess it’s what kept our ancestors alive, but really, this is a second hand rumor. Might be prudent to Keep Calm and stand by for the official word.

[Simone_DF]

46 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Which means that the vast majority 80-85% of sales are APS-C or m4/3 !!!

The vast majority of cameras in that price range are DSLR. Should Leica give up on mirrorless and rangefinders too?

[Simone_DF]

Bad news for those of you waiting for a potential Sigma replacement.

It looks like it will take at least 3 years from now, maybe more

https://petapixel.com/2022/02/22/sigma-is-in-the-second-stage-of-prototyping-a-new-foveon-sensor/

[Louis]

A while ago, I mentioned an article in LR with some pictures.

https://leicarumors.com/2022/01/16/is-that-the-rumored-leica-q3-camera.aspx/

From the back, they certainly look like a Q and some has a flip screen. but we don’t see the front!

Now that I know Leica is ending apsc, I am wondering if these pictures are indeed coming from Wetzlar and they are part of a Leica research for a camera that would be smaller than SL, and a  L mount!…

Leica is not telling us about their plans because they change their mind every day and they don’t seem to know what they are doing! I know that over 50% of the company’s shares belong to Dr. Kaufman family; but I think the other share holders should also pay a closer attention to what is going on in Wetzlar!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Louis

[eibenbaum]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Steve Ash:

One way of improving it would be to have a full frame L-Mount camera with the form factor of the CL....

Or Q.

[lct]

3 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Bad news for those of you waiting for a potential Sigma replacement.

It looks like it will take at least 3 years from now, maybe more

https://petapixel.com/2022/02/22/sigma-is-in-the-second-stage-of-prototyping-a-new-foveon-sensor/

This is about Foveon only i guess. Sigma's plans about the fp Series could be interesting as an alternative to the CL but i don't follow the news on this subject.

[Life By Stills]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

this was posted 30seconds ago..

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaSKiFNrCTY/

"Leica Camera, SIGMA, Panasonic and Leitz Cine offer a user-friendly
solution, allowing photographers to simply mix-and-match.

Almost any of the four manufacturers’ APS-C and full-frame cameras
are compatible with L-Mount lenses from each other’s product range."

Is this basically saying, "Even if we stop our APS-C line, you have other manufacturers which can be used with our gear, so keep buying for the moment"? 🤣😝

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[nicci78]

34 minutes ago, Louis said:

A while ago, I mentioned an article in LR with some pictures.

https://leicarumors.com/2022/01/16/is-that-the-rumored-leica-q3-camera.aspx/

From the back, they certainly look like a Q and some has a flip screen. but we don’t see the front!

Now that I know Leica is ending apsc, I am wondering if these pictures are indeed coming from Wetzlar and they are part of a Leica research for a camera that would be smaller than SL, and a  L mount!…

Leica is not telling us about their plans because they change their mind every day and they don’t seem to know what they are doing! I know that over 50% of the company’s shares belong to Dr. Kaufman family; but I think the other share holders should also pay a closer attention to what is going on in Wetzlar!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

It is Q3 for sure. Q design language all other the place 

QL or full frame CL or tiny SL will warrant a different design just for differentiation. 
Every Leica are distinctive from each other for a good reason : you can tell which is which from the back, top or front alone without looking at the other parts. Everyone of them is different 

Edited February 22, 2022 by nicci78