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Simone_DF

Simone_DF

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2 hours ago, Le Chef said:

It would also likely mean cannibalization of the SL-2 if it were full frame. Frankly it would be business suicide to make it full frame.

I'm not so sure about cannibalization. The SL as it is, is massive and heavy. If a full frame ILCE with smaller body size is important, at the moment Leica doesn't offer one, while Panasonic offers the excellent S5. I'm actually considering getting a S5 since they are on sale and I found one for 1300€.

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Le Chef
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The designers at Leica taking instruction from the forum members  

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Le Chef
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nicci78
nicci78

Leica lend me for four days the SL2-S + APO-SL 35mm.  After the test I was convinced to wait for the CL2.  SL2-S is crazy big and heavy. But ok with M and TL lenses.  APO-SL 35mm is still too he

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Le Chef

Le Chef

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I'm not so sure about cannibalization. The SL as it is, is massive and heavy. If a full frame ILCE with smaller body size is important, at the moment Leica doesn't offer one, while Panasonic offers the excellent S5. I'm actually considering getting a S5 since they are on sale and I found one for 1300€.

It may be a nice wish list item, but it's not a practical business solution. (Can I have a Ferrari for the price of a Toyota please?) To make it work as a business proposition you would need to sell a FF CL-2 for more than an SL-2. The premium would be for compactness otherwise why sell it? If you price it for less than the SL-2 you would need to strip it of features and lose margin, with no guarantees of volume to offset the difference. And that's before you have written off a range of lenses that would be at best seriously compromised.

 

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lct

lct

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45 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

It may be a nice wish list item, but it's not a practical business solution. (Can I have a Ferrari for the price of a Toyota please?) To make it work as a business proposition you would need to sell a FF CL-2 for more than an SL-2. The premium would be for compactness otherwise why sell it? If you price it for less than the SL-2 you would need to strip it of features and lose margin, with no guarantees of volume to offset the difference. And that's before you have written off a range of lenses that would be at best seriously compromised.

Panasonic did it though. Some people don't like big bodies. For now they have to use Sony (or Nikon, Canon..) bodies with Leica lenses because they don't find what they need in the Leica offering. I'd prefer an M-mount body personally but anyway there is some demand for M-mount or L-mount compact FF mirrorless cameras. See the latest Sigma. Now this has nothing to do with the CL2 indeed so sorry for the OT again...

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Boojay

Boojay

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2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I'm not so sure about cannibalization. The SL as it is, is massive and heavy. If a full frame ILCE with smaller body size is important, at the moment Leica doesn't offer one, while Panasonic offers the excellent S5. I'm actually considering getting a S5 since they are on sale and I found one for 1300€.

Leica does offer a smaller FF ILC, the M, in several forms.

The Panasonic S5 is indeed a smaller FF L mount body.. but it also has the same AF system, doesn't come close to Sony/Canon offerings.

Anyway... so many choices today, no bad options really.   

 

 

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ymc226

ymc226

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For normal outdoor, daylight picture taking (travel), what sort of benefit and magnitude would be expected if the rumors are true of a 26MP back-illuminated APS-C sensor to replace the present 24 MP CL sensor?  Of course any answers would be just opinions but I am curious.  Would these differences be expected to show up on a A2/16x22" sized print? Only this new sensor and probable IBIS are swaying me to wait for the CL2.  Otherwise, the TL2 is intriguing as I can use it like an iPhone as I would forgo the EVF. 

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jaapv

jaapv

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1 hour ago, ymc226 said:

Would these differences be expected to show up on a A2/16x22" sized print?

For normal, outdoors photography you would be hard pressed to see a difference on any normal-sized print, but I am sure that some pixel-peepers will claim a vast improvement @ 200% on 4K monitors.

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ymc226

ymc226

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1 minute ago, jaapv said:

For normal, outdoors photography you would be hard pressed to see a difference on any normal-sized print, but I am sure that some pixel-peepers will claim a vast improvement @ 200% on 4K monitors.

That is good to know.  Only prints matter to me.  No pixel peeping although flexibility in processing is appreciated using LR.  

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Boojay

Boojay

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14 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The M is a rangefinder and not everybody is interested in that. Apples and oranges.

Indeed... it's just strange how the (to me) wonderful M rangefinder is what first attracts to Leica,  is the camera many of us strive for then wish for EVF's blazing fast AF/AFC etc etc, in the same body form, as you say, apples and oranges.  All things to all men, impossible.  I am actually amazed at the options Leica gives us already, love my CL.   If there is a CL2, my hopes are that megapixels don't get silly, IBIS might be a bonus, maybe one more programmable button but not essential.  

Just now I'm pretty satisfied with what I have, could do with a with a bit less maybe, but knowing me I wouldn't be able to resist for long 😊.

 

 

 

 

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lct

lct

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3 hours ago, Boojay said:

Indeed... it's just strange how the (to me) wonderful M rangefinder is what first attracts to Leica,  is the camera many of us strive for then wish for EVF's blazing fast AF/AFC etc etc, in the same body form, as you say, apples and oranges. [...]

AF/AFC i don't know but some people have been striving for RFs for many years and now they are striving for a mirrorless camera with the same qualities as their old or new Ms. What i feel strange is that it feels so strange to some excellent people (nothing personal) but as you say apples and oranges :cool:. BTW what attracted me to Leica was not the rangefinder but the lenses in the first place and i would have dreamed to put my 'Crons 35 and 50 on my Canon Ftb QL (for quick loading) then. O tempora! O mores! :D

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jaapv

jaapv

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3 hours ago, lct said:

they are striving for a mirrorless camera with the same qualities as their old or new Ms.

A digital Leica M <IS> a mirrorless camera, in fact all rangefinder cameras are.

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lct

lct

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18 minutes ago, jaapv said:

A digital Leica M <IS> a mirrorless camera, in fact all rangefinder cameras are.

So don't you undestand what i said really? Do you want me to elaborate? Please do not hesitate to ask :D.

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jaapv

jaapv

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29 minutes ago, lct said:

So don't you undestand what i said really? Do you want me to elaborate? Please do not hesitate to ask :D.

Get your definitions straight. A digital Leica M is the original mirrorless camera (and the RD1 the first). So no, I don''t understand your post.

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lct

lct

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6 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Get your definitions straight. A digital Leica M is the original mirrorless camera (and the RD1 the first). So no, I don''t understand your post.

I will try to help you then, no problem at all. So i was saying that « some people have been striving for RFs for many years and now they are striving for a mirrorless camera with the same qualities as their old or new Ms ». By "RFs" i meant rangefinders and by "Ms" M bodies. Makes: « some people have been striving for rangefinders for many years and now they are striving for a mirrorless camera with the same qualities as their old or new M bodies ». Clear enough now?

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Le Chef

Le Chef

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14 minutes ago, lct said:

I will try to help you then, no problem at all. So i was saying that « some people have been striving for RFs for many years and now they are striving for a mirrorless camera with the same qualities as their old or new Ms ». By "RFs" i meant rangefinders and by "Ms" M bodies. Makes: « some people have been striving for rangefinders for many years and now they are striving for a mirrorless camera with the same qualities as their old or new M bodies ». Clear enough now?

 But as Jaap says, Rangefinders ARE mirrorless.

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lct

lct

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Just now, Le Chef said:

 But as Jaap says, Rangefinders ARE mirrorless.

The term "mirrorless camera" did not exist 50 years ago. Never seen any Leica M presented as a "mirrorless camera" in any Leica specs so far. But i may be wrong as often ;).

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Le Chef

Le Chef

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3 minutes ago, lct said:

The term "mirrorless camera" did not exist 50 years ago. Never seen any Leica M presented as a "mirrorless camera" in any Leica specs so far. But i may be wrong as often ;).

If it doesn’t have a mirror, then it’s mirrorless.

Edited by Le Chef
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