Leica CL-2

[nicci78]

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Don’t be too impatient. 
Leica is frequently very late with its product releases. It is a very small camera manufacturer after all. 

Q2 was postponed just to ensure enough units made for the launch. But missed 2018 holiday season. 
S3 was announced early but took almost a year before release due to unexpected issues. 
SL2 was late too. 
M10 missed the holiday seasons 2016. 
M typ 240 took several months before effective availability to the public. 
TL2 were right on time for 3 years renewal time frame. But it was rushed out and quickly remove from stores : all orders cancelled. Every units sold have to be return. Ultimately it missed 2017 summer season. 

We just have to be wait longer to be sure that Leica is ready to release a flawless CL2. Nobody wants to deal with major issues at launch. 
 

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, Le Chef said:

l like facts, not hearsay. If you’re going to claim an inside source then do yourself a favor and ask them for the facts to prove it, otherwise you’re the one who looks less than credible.

Welcome to the real world. Such facts tend not to turn up until a formal launch announcement. I am very happy to hear such rumours, which are totally harmless whether true or false.
No need to be offensive simply because someone passes on what they hear. Hearsay is not forbidden outside a court of law. 

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[nicci78]

Leica is a master of controlling rumours to build up momentum before launch. 
 

It already started with M11 one mont ago. But weirdly it go silent again. I guess that rumours saying that it will be postponed until 2022 are possibly true. 
 

Same for CL2 in early 2021 some rumours started to surface (mainly specs) then absolute silence. 
Because it was pushed for a way later release date. 
 

 

When you see that some leaked informations started to boiled up. You are pretty sure that launch time is near. At that time you can get confirmation from your Leica Store (only if you are a faithful customer of course) 

[nicci78]

Nokhishita for example is just an unpaid PR firm proud/dumb enough to report so called leaks for free. 
But there sources are often just camera manufacturers themselves. 
 

So no news = not ready for launch. 
Constant leakage of tiny bits of information = momentum build up to get maximum news coverage over different type of media. 

So don’t be fooled. Everything is by design. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by nicci78

[SoCalLeicanator]

11 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Don’t be too impatient. 
Leica is frequently very late with its product releases. It is a very small camera manufacturer after all. 

Q2 was postponed just to ensure enough units made for the launch. But missed 2018 holiday season. 
S3 was announced early but took almost a year before release due to unexpected issues. 
SL2 was late too. 
M10 missed the holiday seasons 2016. 
M typ 240 took several months before effective availability to the public. 
TL2 were right on time for 3 years renewal time frame. But it was rushed out and quickly remove from stores : all orders cancelled. Every units sold have to be return. Ultimately it missed 2017 summer season. 

We just have to be wait longer to be sure that Leica is ready to release a flawless CL2. Nobody wants to deal with major issues at launch. 
 

I'll take this hearsay over the Australian hearsay

[Le Chef]

3 hours ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

I'll take this hearsay over the Australian hearsay

I would say this was analysis of fact, not hearsay.

[SoCalLeicanator]

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47 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

I would say this was analysis of fact, not hearsay.

To be technical yes (and since much is lost in internet communication.  To be clear, my tone is genial and amused, nothing else). But what Nicci's dealer told him about the CL-2 slated for release to be cancelled is hearsay.

Also, no one bit when I sad that Lumix and/or Sigma might come to the APS-C rescue.  So, now for my bit of hearsay.  Not my Leica dealer, but the Leica guru at the local camera shop indicated to me that both the CL and the Q2 have more Panasonic than Leica "guts" (anyone that shopped for electronics in the later 70s early 80s will know what I mean).  A little bit of research seems to indicate this is certainly the case for the Q2. The Lens (like the TL zoom lenses) has a Konica Minolta patent on it. 

Maybe the next CL will be an APS-C Lumix.  As long it does the lenses justice, the marque doesn't matter that much to me. 

[jaapv]

Well, the die is cast. My dealer is offering the S5 for 1449 Euro… ( all Panasonic system cameras heavily discounted) No CL2 for me. 

[Le Chef]

1 minute ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

To be technical yes (and since much is lost in internet communication.  To be clear, my tone is genial and amused, nothing else). But what Nicci's dealer told him about the CL-2 slated for release to be cancelled is hearsay.

Also, no one bit when I sad that Lumix and/or Sigma might come to the APS-C rescue.  So, now for my bit of hearsay.  Not my Leica dealer, but the Leica guru at the local camera shop indicated to me that both the CL and the Q2 have more Panasonic than Leica "guts" (anyone that shopped for electronics in the later 70s early 80s will know what I mean).  A little bit of research seems to indicate this is certainly the case for the Q2. The Lens (like the TL zoom lenses) has a Konica Minolta patent on it. 

Maybe the next CL will be an APS-C Lumix.  As long it does the lenses justice, the marque doesn't matter that much to me. 

Yes - you’re absolutely correct.
 

For me the keys are: the lenses have forward compatibility, that the camera body continues with a refinement of the UI currently in place, that the size of the body does not grow significantly, that IBIS is included and that there is some weatherproofing. If there are two similar camera bodies with one branded Leica and the other branded LUMIX or Sigma, I will be perfectly happy as costs and efficiencies are spread wider.

[gotium]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Well, the die is cast. My dealer is offering the S5 for 1449 Euro… ( all Panasonic system cameras heavily discounted) No CL2 for me. 

Won’t that mean starting over with a whole new line of lenses? Crop factor wouldn’t leave much resolution for TL lenses, and who knows if they work well on Pannies anyway?

[SoCalLeicanator]

 

Just now, Le Chef said:

Yes - you’re absolutely correct.
 

For me the keys are: the lenses have forward compatibility, that the camera body continues with a refinement of the UI currently in place, that the size of the body does not grow significantly, that IBIS is included and that there is some weatherproofing. If there are two similar camera bodies with one branded Leica and the other branded LUMIX or Sigma, I will be perfectly happy as costs and efficiencies are spread wider.

I read somewhere (more hearsay) that the TL lenses were future proofed to a ridiculous megapixel count.   Using them with the opcodes stripped (I do this for all my 35 and 23 shots) seems to verify this.

[SoCalLeicanator]

Just now, gotium said:

Won’t that mean starting over with a whole new line of lenses? Crop factor wouldn’t leave much resolution for TL lenses, and who knows if they work well on Pannies anyway?

And yes, that is what I haven't gone S5.  I also got a Q2 for my 50th so I'm pretty stoked right now both with partner selection and my gear.  That's why I kind of hope Lumix takes over the APS-C body if Leica goes silent.  Their micro 4/3s is really impressive!  They may be behind much of the CL anyways and maybe they can save our lens quivers (if Leica doesn't).

 

[gotium]

22 minutes ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

I also got a Q2 for my 50th so I'm pretty stoked right now both with partner selection and my gear. 

 

Oh yes, keep both!

[jaapv]

38 minutes ago, gotium said:

Won’t that mean starting over with a whole new line of lenses? Crop factor wouldn’t leave much resolution for TL lenses, and who knows if they work well on Pannies anyway?

I really only need it for the 150-600. And there  are my M lenses. And the R 35-70. And several others. As to resolution: 10 MP is ample for A3+  And I am not switching systems, I’m adding a backup. 

[gotium]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I really only need it for the 150-600. And there  are my M lenses. And the R 35-70. And several others. 

I’d not be too confident with M lenses - they’ll probably smudge in the corners on a Panny. I see a future SL of some kind as an option for M and TL lenses, but that’s too big and much more expensive in current forms. 

[SoCalLeicanator]

29 minutes ago, gotium said:

I’d not be too confident with M lenses - they’ll probably smudge in the corners on a Panny. I see a future SL of some kind as an option for M and TL lenses, but that’s too big and much more expensive in current forms. 

Just out of curiosity, why would this happen?  It doesn't on the CL (at least the Voigtlander 35/2.5, my only M lens).

[jaapv]

Time will tell. I tend to use my M lenses on my M bodies. 

[gotium]

1 hour ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

Just out of curiosity, why would this happen?  It doesn't on the CL (at least the Voigtlander 35/2.5, my only M lens).

Thicker cover glass over the sensor on the Panny, increasing diffraction at the edges with rangefinder lenses - Leica is careful to use thin glass so their M lenses will work.

Less of an issue for crop-frame cameras like the CL as the problem is at the edges.

Edited October 18, 2021 by gotium

[robgo2]

On 10/17/2021 at 4:49 PM, Le Chef said:

l like facts, not hearsay. If you’re going to claim an inside source then do yourself a favor and ask them for the facts to prove it, otherwise you’re the one who looks less than credible.

Seriously, do you think that "inside" sources are obligated to provide proof to an ordinary user or dealer? If asked to do so, most would probably tell you to "bug off" (politely).

Edited October 19, 2021 by robgo2

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[RustyBug]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:03 AM, crf59 said:

I was told by a reputable source, much to my dismay, that there will likely not be a CL2 or any successor to the CL. His comment was "it's not in the Leica budget for this year" and that "sales of the CL do not support continued investment". I hope he's wrong, but I doubt he is. I sold all my CL gear (had everything but the 60mm macro) and switched to the SL system (still have a bunch of M gear but these days it's too cumbersome for me to use1). I personally love the SL and SL2-S, but with Leica glass they are just too heavy for me for travel. I wish I had kept the CL kit and just bought the SL gear for when I am not traveling. I traveled to Spain the last two weeks and ran out to my local dealer to buy an emergency Nikon Z50 kit (with zooms) before I left. That combined setup was less than the weight of my SL2-S body alone (and by the way, the images were very good - was surprised). I carried my CL and 3 lenses on a trip to Rome before COVID and it was perfect.

I really wish Leica would update the CL, but business decisions are based on numbers and not desires.

Imo you make certain valid points that (imo) WILL be the reason for the CL2 to release.

SL > TOO HEAVY

CL + 3 lenses > trip perfect

APS-C Option > Competitor

 

I've got Leica (PL) glass on the m43 platform and M glass for the M240.
The M lineup is telephoto challenged, and the telephoto realm in SL is monstrous (wallet & bag).

To me, the excellent (future proof, according to others) TL glass needs a proper home, and while the SL can use it (crop mode), the CL / CL2 just makes sense.

Even though there is a relationship between the Panny and Leica, Panny doesn't look like they're going to add APS-C to their lineup.  They've got m43 and FF.  That's where they'll stay focused.  Reason being, they would need to develop a line of APS-C lenses to reduce the weight of FF, or increase the image circle of m43.  They aren't going to water themselves down any further than m43 and FF.

As to the point about Panny's involvement with Leica guts ... maybe.  But, that shutter release on the CL is about as tactile a release as I've ever shot (i.e. German-esque).

As noted elsewhere, I sold off my CL (too soon) in anticipation of the CL2.  So, while I'm patiently letting an X-Pro3 fill in my APS-C realm (with X-M adapter), I still see a CL2 being a natural for the TL glass that exists.  Also, using the M glass on it is nice, too.  I mean, what ... you think folks are gonna use the TL glass on the SL.  Likely, not so much (although, you can in crop mode).

 

Patience ... imo, the CL2 will release, someday. 😉