Leica CL-2

[Guytou]

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Excellent review David, it is really very interesting.
Congratulations ! 

Guytou

 

[wda]

12 hours ago, Guytou said:

Excellent review David, it is really very interesting.
Congratulations ! 

Guytou

 

Thank you, Guytou. It is pleasing that my small contribution is appreciated.

David

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[Boojay]

Yes, good reading David, and nice photographs,  thank you.  Having had my CL from launch I still enjoy and appreciate using it - most days.  

 I am one of the " many photographers refuse to master this simple tool" of User Profiles.   My CL remains on the Leica Defaults, TBH I find the menu and button system of the CL so simple  especially (as you mention) since the latest firmware update, that there is no setting change I can't do quickly enough, don't feel I have missed a shot due to lack of a user profile, I just take a moment when setting out with the camera, almost always AWB, a lot of times Auto ISO as start point and adjust as I go along. 

I find I use custom profiles more on the cameras that have lots of buttons, bells and whistles, then it definitely gets you to where you need to be quicker.

In about four weeks time my little CL will be coming to Scotland for our first trip for ages,  can't wait to have something different to point it at 😊.

Anyway, thank you again David.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Boojay
typo

[wda]

14 minutes ago, Boojay said:

Yes, good reading David, and nice photographs,  thank you.  Having had my CL from launch I still enjoy and appreciate using it - most days.  

 I am one of the " many photographers refuse to master this simple tool" of User Profiles.   My CL remains on the Leica Defaults, TBH I find the menu and button system of the CL so simple  especially (as you mention) since the latest firmware update, that there is no setting change I can't do quickly enough, don't feel I have missed a shot due to lack of a user profile, I just take a moment when setting out with the camera, almost always AWB, a lot of times Auto ISO as start point and adjust as I go along. 

I find I use custom profiles more on the cameras that have lots of buttons, bells and whistles, then it definitely gets you to where you need to be quicker.

In about four weeks time my little CL will be coming to Scotland for our first trip for ages,  can't wait to have something different to point it at 😊.

Anyway, thank you again David.

 

 

 

 

 

Jayne, thank you for your kind comments. My words relating to user profiles arise from face-to-face conversations with Leica photographers who like the idea of user profiles, but never get around to implementing the advice.  In your case, your style accommodates the simple approach. Well done. Nothing wrong with that approach. For some of my photography I need accurate colour fidelity, plant cultivars, for example. So I use a WhiBal or X-rite ColorChecker to custom set my white balance. Moving on, the need changes. Either I set a new custom WB, or I swiftly set my default user profile. So my procedures are different, but not entirely untypical.

Wishing you great success and happiness during your holiday in Scotland. There is nothing to beat a fresh challenge in new terrain. Even ten miles over the horizon stimulates my creative juices. But Scotland: how lovely!

[Boojay]

6 minutes ago, wda said:

 

Wishing you great success and happiness during your holiday in Scotland. There is nothing to beat a fresh challenge in new terrain. Even ten miles over the horizon stimulates my creative juices. But Scotland: how lovely!

Can't wait for Scotland David, my other half can fish all day and I can wander with dog and camera, nothing beats it!   I have a significant birthday coming up and the break is booked to actually avoid a party our daughter had in mind, eminently more sensible to me in Covid times to have a quiet escape plan😄!   

I agree there are times when custom WB is totally necessary.   I do the stock photography for our daughters business website and various publications, then I have to take my time, can't say I enjoy it much though.

Thanks for your good wishes, I have made the usual plans in my head to get up early enough for sunrises, to use my tripod and plan my shots etc etc, all of which will go out of the window as per usual but hopefully there'll be shots worth sharing, I know I'll have enjoyed the process, whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[graphlex]

Tout ce qui n’est pas prose est vers...

(responding to #218)

Edited May 22, 2021 by graphlex
Amplification

[Le Chef]

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On 5/21/2021 at 7:15 AM, Boojay said:

Can't wait for Scotland David, my other half can fish all day and I can wander with dog and camera, nothing beats it!   I have a significant birthday coming up and the break is booked to actually avoid a party our daughter had in mind, eminently more sensible to me in Covid times to have a quiet escape plan😄!   

I agree there are times when custom WB is totally necessary.   I do the stock photography for our daughters business website and various publications, then I have to take my time, can't say I enjoy it much though.

Thanks for your good wishes, I have made the usual plans in my head to get up early enough for sunrises, to use my tripod and plan my shots etc etc, all of which will go out of the window as per usual but hopefully there'll be shots worth sharing, I know I'll have enjoyed the process, whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Happiest of Birthdays Jayne! Good plan to avoid something you wouldn’t enjoy, even if the sentiment was well meant. Peace and quiet in Scotland sounds wonderful!

[michali]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:35 PM, wda said:

A replacement for the successful Leica CL remains a rumour. The hinted launch date has passed. Meanwhile, some owners have already sold their CL cameras, prematurely I believe, and must be wondering what their next move should be.

Good used CLs are available in the marketplace and are often bought by photographers new to Leica ownership. It was during this uncertain period of unfulfilled expectations that I decided to pen some personal thoughts on the Leica CL, for my website. My sole aim was to help the next generation of owners of this fine versatile camera. If you are interested, you can find my article here https://david2008.photium.com/my-way-with-the-leica

If experienced owners with additional views on the Leica CL so wish, please add your thoughts as comments to join others, already published there. Thank you. (This is not a rival discussion, but a reference point for future owners).

David thanks for sharing your excellent write up on the CL, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

The CL's such a great little camera, since I acquired it about 18 months ago my M10 & MM1 are seeing far less use, ageing eyes & range finder focusing etc.

I also use the CL as a back up for the SL2 on safaris, the same menu interface makes it seamless using the 2 cameras side by side. I normally keep the VE 90-280mm L mounted on the camera; it serves as the 1.5X teleconverter that Leica hasn't given us for the 90-280mm L. I've always always preferred my Leica cameras the way they were originally designed i.e. minimal add-ons, however for use with longer lenses I've attached the Lim's thumb support & the base-plate handgrip, it makes for better handling without adding too much bulk to the camera.

 

 

[RustyBug]

On 5/20/2021 at 2:35 PM, wda said:

The hinted launch date has passed. Meanwhile, some owners have already sold their CL cameras, prematurely I believe, and must be wondering what their next move should be.

 

I'm in the "pre-mature sale" category.

Being new to Leica with the CL as my entry point (after having used some PL lenses, I thought I'd try out some "real" Leica glass on a Leica body).

My copy was pristine, so I figured I should sell it before I buggered it up (based on the rumor of the CL2 to ship in April).  Yup, I've been lamenting that decision a bit.  But, unless Leica were to officially announce there will be NO CL2, I don't feel compelled to repurchase the CL.  

As to "next move", I've thought about getting a TL2 to hold me over.  I've looked at the prospects of SL or Q/Q2 or even S5.  In the end, I've picked up an X-Pro3 to mount my M28/2.8 on.  My L mount glass (30, 55-135) is just packed away waiting for the CL2 to arrive.  If you're a believer that "glass rules", mounting the lens on the Fuji is kinda like changing out a roll of film ... until Leica puts their new "film" on the shelf.  So far, I'm not experiencing any issues with cover glass thickness (APS-C vs. FF) like others do when adapting certain M lenses on FF.

For now. 😉

Somebody mentioned November ... well, here's looking forward to 2022.  Not sure if "patience is a virtue" or not, but not a lot of other options if you happen to like Leica / L-Mount in APS-C.

Edited May 23, 2021 by RustyBug
typo correction

[RustyBug]

On 5/20/2021 at 2:35 PM, wda said:

If you are interested, you can find my article here https://david2008.photium.com/my-way-with-the-leica

If experienced owners with additional views on the Leica CL so wish, please add your thoughts as comments to join others, already published there. Thank you. (This is not a rival discussion, but a reference point for future owners).

The one thing that stood out for me with regard to the CL that wasn't mentioned much about ... LONG PRESS vs. SHORT PRESS.

Once I came to understand that the function buttons could actually serve as "TWO in one" by virtue of the Long Press or Short Press, the ability to set up the camera to do exactly what I wanted from it was much more viable.  Mostly, I like to switch back / forth to AF / MF and to zoom in for focus checks.  Once I figured out the differences of menu activation by short vs. long (presses), I re-arranged the functions a bit, and it became the way I wanted it. 

A little bit of time to work it through, think it through and set it up ... but, so worth it.

 

As to the lack of IS in the body or lenses ... the old school ways are viable.  And, the increase in ISO has a pleasant film-esque noise pattern that isn't "shot-ruining, offensive" like some ISO gains can be.  I'll be looking forward to the IBIS in the CL2 ... BUT, if having a movable sensor winds up making the CL2 susceptible to more shutter shock, then some folks may find that the fixed sensor of the CL could be favorable.  My hope for the CL2 is that Leica's implementation of it will be a superior (design, tight tolerances, etc.) engineering that keeps shutter shock at bay, even with a movable sensor.  Time will tell.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by RustyBug
Added info

[wda]

36 minutes ago, RustyBug said:

The one thing that stood out for me with regard to the CL that wasn't mentioned much about ... LONG PRESS vs. SHORT PRESS.

Once I came to understand that the function buttons could actually serve as "TWO in one" by virtue of the Long Press or Short Press, the ability to set up the camera to do exactly what I wanted from it was much more viable.  Mostly, I like to switch back / forth to AF / MF and to zoom in for focus checks.  Once I figured out the differences of menu activation by short vs. long (presses), I re-arranged the functions a bit, and it became the way I wanted it. 

A little bit of time to work it through, think it through and set it up ... but, so worth it.

 

As to the lack of IS in the body or lenses ... the old school ways are viable.  And, the increase in ISO has a pleasant film-esque noise pattern that isn't "shot-ruining, offensive" like some ISO gains can be.  I'll be looking forward to the IBIS in the CL2 ... BUT, if having a movable sensor winds up making the CL2 susceptible to more shutter shock, then some folks may find that the fixed sensor of the CL could be favorable.  My hope for the CL2 is that Leica's implementation of it will be a superior (design, tight tolerances, etc.) engineering that keeps shutter shock at bay, even with a movable sensor.  Time will tell.

 

The long press is still useful to me on the function button, but rarely now on the top dials. The new Menu home page has transformed my way of working. 

[RustyBug]

Any buzz or speculation on the CL2 ... we're in Q4, now.

[Le Chef]

If the rumors that the M11 will be delayed until Spring are accurate, then you can play your own mind games as to when a CL2 might appear.

[wda]

35 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

If the rumors that the M11 will be delayed until Spring are accurate, then you can play your own mind games as to when a CL2 might appear.

My feeling is that it is a waste of time and brain power trying to second-guess Leica's equipment release intentions. Life is already too short. I enjoy my CL and its lenses. Risk of camera shake is nullified by careful choice of shutter speeds or use of a tripod. And if I need the excitement of a renewed challenge, I just dust off my M8 or X-Vario and rediscover their strong points. For my current needs, what I have continues to serve me well and leaves me well-satisfied. Of course, Leica could throw a spanner in the works,  but I am not holding my breath.

[LocalHero1953]

If it was announced that Leica was not replacing the CL....what would I do? I guess I have a choice:

Keep using it and my four TL lenses (11-23, 18-56, 35, 60) until they or I fade away;

• Pros: no more worries
• Cons: loss of trade in value for any other kit I might want to buy; missing out on features I want (weatherproofing in particular); the CL body might die, leaving the lenses with questionable value.

Sell it and buy a Q2 for travel, family & social

• Pros: full frame, weatherproof, no extra lenses to choose between.
• Cons: no ultrawide, which I use quite a lot.

Meanwhile I shall procrastinate and hope that something turns up.

[Le Chef]

6 hours ago, wda said:

My feeling is that it is a waste of time and brain power trying to second-guess Leica's equipment release intentions. Life is already too short. I enjoy my CL and its lenses. Risk of camera shake is nullified by careful choice of shutter speeds or use of a tripod. And if I need the excitement of a renewed challenge, I just dust off my M8 or X-Vario and rediscover their strong points. For my current needs, what I have continues to serve me well and leaves me well-satisfied. Of course, Leica could throw a spanner in the works,  but I am not holding my breath.

The Micawber strategy!

[Studienkamera]

Where I live, the trade-in value for CL equipment is already very low. The local dealers and markets are flooded with CLs. A good reason to just keep shooting.

Given the number of 2nd hand cameras locally available, the CL probably was quite successful, although I never saw anyone else using this camera. I hardly see any used Txx cameras.

[FrozenInTime]

I have three scenarios in mind:

• Leica and many others a waiting for the 43 Mpixel Sony BSI sensor to hit production 
• Leica are hoping SL2 and SL2-S sales drive SL lens sales and the line shows more profit than the CL line ... and CL/TL will be allowed to wither away.
• Leica are hoping Q2 sales show more profit than the CL line ... and CL/TL will be allowed to wither away.

I've found the SL2-S to be a fantastic mirrorless body, but I am not prepared to lug around the SL lenses, so will use it with M lenses.

I've already decided the CL 18/35/18-56 or Ricoh GRIII and GRIIIx pair, suits me better than a Q2 and non existing longer lens variant. 

A CL-2 with 43 Mpixels , IBIS and a wide TL Summilux lens would hit the right spot ; otherwise future spend goes to M or elsewhere.

[FrozenInTime]

21 minutes ago, Studienkamera said:

Where I live, the trade-in value for CL equipment is already very low. The local dealers and markets are flooded with CLs. A good reason to just keep shooting.

Given the number of 2nd hand cameras locally available, the CL probably was quite successful, although I never saw anyone else using this camera. I hardly see any used Txx cameras.

The TL2 is really quite a beautiful piece of design - the main I don't sell it. 

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[Driften]

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

If it was announced that Leica was not replacing the CL....what would I do? I guess I have a choice:

Keep using it and my four TL lenses (11-23, 18-56, 35, 60) until they or I fade away;

• Pros: no more worries
• Cons: loss of trade in value for any other kit I might want to buy; missing out on features I want (weatherproofing in particular); the CL body might die, leaving the lenses with questionable value.

Sell it and buy a Q2 for travel, family & social

• Pros: full frame, weatherproof, no extra lenses to choose between.
• Cons: no ultrawide, which I use quite a lot.

Meanwhile I shall procrastinate and hope that something turns up.

If Leica decides there will not be a CL2, I don't see it as impacting my CL usage or jumping ship to something else because of that. If they do announce a CL2 with IBIS or better ISO performance I would sell the CL and get the CL2. But I'm now in a position of having options. I have the Q from before the CL, and now I have an SL2-S. Those will be my only cameras for a while. I'm selling off $4k of Fujifilm cameras to help pay for the SL2-S :). Once that's done I will be all Leica.