GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[aksclix]

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13 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Could you be less mysterious?:). My inclination was that GFX was big and ugly compared with X1D.  Both the 50 and the 100.  The 100S is supposedly less so...  Am I missing something?

I had the 50r and it was definitely not ugly! In fact it was a beautiful brick with incredible imaging capabilities

[aksclix]

17 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Could you be less mysterious?:). My inclination was that GFX was big and ugly compared with X1D.  Both the 50 and the 100.  The 100S is supposedly less so...  Am I missing something?

BUT, I don't deny that the X1D is a LOT prettier!!

[setuporg]

I've talked to @frame-it and realized he refers to the street photography with the GFX50R as proof its AF is fast and quality is fine.  To which I can say that X1D quality is fine too, and the question of whether AF is fast enough for street photography is not necessarily reflective of the AF speed, as the M users could testify.  There's plenty of X1D street photography too.  And S.  But, the 100MP magic casts everything in a new light, I guess.

What I realized after thinking of the specs is that the ~3.5MP EVF just doesn't cut it for me.  I need an OVF and S provides it.  The X1Dii EVF is extremely annoying as it flickers on anything with fine texture, such as trees with leaves.  The SL2 EVF is much better.  But an OVF is hard to beat.  So I'd stick with the S and the Hasselblad 503cw+CFV II 50c that provides an OVF+MF setup.  If Fuji brings a hybrid OVF+EVF to its GFX lineup, now that would be interesting.

[aksclix]

24 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I've talked to @frame-it and realized he refers to the street photography with the GFX50R as proof its AF is fast and quality is fine.  To which I can say that X1D quality is fine too, and the question of whether AF is fast enough for street photography is not necessarily reflective of the AF speed, as the M users could testify.  There's plenty of X1D street photography too.  And S.  But, the 100MP magic casts everything in a new light, I guess.

What I realized after thinking of the specs is that the ~3.5MP EVF just doesn't cut it for me.  I need an OVF and S provides it.  The X1Dii EVF is extremely annoying as it flickers on anything with fine texture, such as trees with leaves.  The SL2 EVF is much better.  But an OVF is hard to beat.  So I'd stick with the S and the Hasselblad 503cw+CFV II 50c that provides an OVF+MF setup.  If Fuji brings a hybrid OVF+EVF to its GFX lineup, now that would be interesting.

SL2’s EVF is the best one going around I think..

I’ve also shot with the 50r and 50mm pancake lens setup quite a bit.. they’re a pair made for reach other.. 50mm f3.5 is the fastest AF lens in their line up. 63 apparently is bad and the 45 is OK! 

 

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[frame-it]

5 minutes ago, aksclix said:

63 apparently is bad

not at all..that's my only GF lens and its very fast on the street

[aksclix]

3 minutes ago, frame-it said:

not at all..that's my only GF lens and its very fast on the street

I don’t have that lens actually so was just going by what a couple of users had told me.. maybe some pieces are bad.. not sure

[meerec]

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20 hours ago, frame-it said:

interesting, someone else had a similar sticky button problem with an M10

It progressively got worse over time. Especially the ‘play’ button got very ‘hard clicking’ rather than naturally soft. 3 months or longer without the camera. Bad luck. 

[Succisa75]

6 hours ago, aksclix said:

SL2’s EVF is the best one going around I think..

I’ve also shot with the 50r and 50mm pancake lens setup quite a bit.. they’re a pair made for reach other.. 50mm f3.5 is the fastest AF lens in their line up. 63 apparently is bad and the 45 is OK! 

 

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The new 80 is also fast. 
agree the SL2 evf is quite good. Great optics inside 

[Simone_DF]

9 hours ago, aksclix said:

SL2’s EVF is the best one going around I think..

I agree, it's definitely the nicest EVF I ever used, even compared to the A7rIV EVF, that on paper has better specs.

I'm curious to see how it compares to the new A1 EVF with 9mp and a refresh rate of 240 fps though. 

[ZHNL]

13 hours ago, aksclix said:

SL2’s EVF is the best one going around I think..

I’ve also shot with the 50r and 50mm pancake lens setup quite a bit.. they’re a pair made for reach other.. 50mm f3.5 is the fastest AF lens in their line up. 63 apparently is bad and the 45 is OK! 

 

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This is a ugly setup LOL

[SrMi]

14 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've talked to @frame-it and realized he refers to the street photography with the GFX50R as proof its AF is fast and quality is fine.  To which I can say that X1D quality is fine too, and the question of whether AF is fast enough for street photography is not necessarily reflective of the AF speed, as the M users could testify.  There's plenty of X1D street photography too.  And S.  But, the 100MP magic casts everything in a new light, I guess.

What I realized after thinking of the specs is that the ~3.5MP EVF just doesn't cut it for me.  I need an OVF and S provides it.  The X1Dii EVF is extremely annoying as it flickers on anything with fine texture, such as trees with leaves.  The SL2 EVF is much better.  But an OVF is hard to beat.  So I'd stick with the S and the Hasselblad 503cw+CFV II 50c that provides an OVF+MF setup.  If Fuji brings a hybrid OVF+EVF to its GFX lineup, now that would be interesting.

Most Fuji GFX lenses are too long and would block the OVF.

Edited February 2, 2021 by SrMi

[cheekz4dayz]

To the OP I thought about it briefly especially since I just purchased my SL2 with 35/75 last month. The truth for me is that I'm no longer attracted to how the fujifilm cameras look. I started with the fujifilm XT-2 and loved it and loved the dials. Nowadays though I just love the Q2 and the SL2 system. I look at it as I'm now in the leica ecosystem and all the buttons are the same and the batteries are the same for me. So everything is seamless, also looking at the files from the SL2, I love them so much.  

None of these are objective points but to me how a camera makes me feel is super important and unfortunately fujifilm' looks (especially MF) just don't do it for me. I'm excited for the technical leaps being made in the photography industry I love to see all these companies innovating. Leica suits me as a person and I love how with Leica cameras I don't really care as much about G.A.S (partly cos it takes a lot longer for me to afford the gear 😅). But also so far in my limited experience the leica community doesn't really care as much about the equipment but moreso about the art of photography. These are the main reasons why I stick with Leica

Happy Shooting!

[Succisa75]

4 hours ago, cheekz4dayz said:

To the OP I thought about it briefly especially since I just purchased my SL2 with 35/75 last month. The truth for me is that I'm no longer attracted to how the fujifilm cameras look. I started with the fujifilm XT-2 and loved it and loved the dials. Nowadays though I just love the Q2 and the SL2 system. I look at it as I'm now in the leica ecosystem and all the buttons are the same and the batteries are the same for me. So everything is seamless, also looking at the files from the SL2, I love them so much.  

None of these are objective points but to me how a camera makes me feel is super important and unfortunately fujifilm' looks (especially MF) just don't do it for me. I'm excited for the technical leaps being made in the photography industry I love to see all these companies innovating. Leica suits me as a person and I love how with Leica cameras I don't really care as much about G.A.S (partly cos it takes a lot longer for me to afford the gear 😅). But also so far in my limited experience the leica community doesn't really care as much about the equipment but moreso about the art of photography. These are the main reasons why I stick with Leica

Happy Shooting!

This is the beauty of Leica. It does feel special to hold and use. I think the debate here is, is Leica doing enough for existing and potentially new customers to keep them in the SL and L Mount system? 
 

While Fujifilm might not have the name and prestige of Leica, nor the build quality yet, (the GFX 100s is the best so far though), they created a tool that is a medium format camera in a smaller body than the SL2 with IBIS, arguably better video specs than the SL2 and comparable to the SL2-S with much better AF for a price that equals the SL2. 
in addition better Low light performance and Image quality. MF vs FF. 

Can Leica continue on this path of minimal updates and rely solely on build quality and brand. Can they make the L Mount system competitive in a time where economics play a major role now with the pandemic. Should they be more aggressive in marketing and pricing? 

I think that’s the bigger picture here. I maybe wrong, but the GFX100s is a bit of a wake up call for some, that use a camera for more professional needs. 
 

[Simone_DF]

8 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Can Leica continue on this path of minimal updates and rely solely on build quality and brand. Can they make the L Mount system competitive in a time where economics play a major role now with the pandemic. Should they be more aggressive in marketing and pricing? 

The SL2-S is 4500€ for a full frame Leica at launch. The original SL was 7000€. A slash of about 40% is aggressive, imho.   

Even the Q2 is more expensive!

[frame-it]

 

On 2/2/2021 at 1:04 PM, setuporg said:

I find the AF speed argument against SL2 raised by the ascent of FGX quite funny.  Compared to all other Leicas, epsecially the M, the AF speed of SL2 ist fantastisch.:). Surely if you want fast AF you need a Canikon.

 

the question of whether AF is fast enough for street photography is not necessarily reflective of the AF speed, as the M users could testify.  There's plenty of X1D street photography too.  And S.  But, the 100MP magic casts everything in a new light, I guess.

What I realized after thinking of the specs is that the ~3.5MP EVF just doesn't cut it for me.

 

 My inclination was that GFX was big and ugly compared with X1D.  Both the 50 and the 100.  The 100S is supposedly less so

 

If Fuji makes a GXF version with an OVF, now that would be a game changer.  Until then, Leica S is impossible to beat.

so finally, your point is that the S with its OVF + S lenses is what works for you.😇

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

While Fujifilm might not have the name and prestige of Leica, nor the build quality yet, (the GFX 100s is the best so far though), they created a tool that is a medium format camera in a smaller body than the SL2 with IBIS, arguably better video specs than the SL2 and comparable to the SL2-S with much better AF for a price that equals the SL2. 
in addition better Low light performance and Image quality. MF vs FF. 

Have you tried the GFX100s? I ask because it won't be generally available for another month, barring additional delays.

The video specs are nothing special so far, other than the sensor size. It will get raw at some point, but that hasn't happened yet. That being said, raw isn't a critical feature for the type of video that people shoot on mirrorless cameras (or for motion pictures, but that's another story for another day). The real question is "how does the video look in real life?" I think that Fuji released one short shot by highly-skilled professionals, but they can make anything look good.

I personally found previous Fuji MF cameras to have deficient AF. It just couldn't make-up its mind where to focus, so every half-press of the shutter was a roll of the dice. No doubt it locked-on fairly fast, but always on a different spot. I'm sure they've optimized the algorithm, but it may be wise to wait for production cameras and production firmware before making definitive statements.

I am not trying to knock what is no-doubt a fine camera. It just seems like people on forums get over-excited every time there is a camera announcement by any brand. That excitement usually calms-down prior to release. Actually, it is replaced by another wave of excitement for a different camera. To me the new Fuji is a camera with a very specific mission statement: to steal every possible sale from the A7r. I think it will do that very well.

[Mr.Q]

I held and briefly tested the new GFX in Tokyo. It's AF is almost as fast as the latest offerings from Sony and Canon. AF tracking was also quite impressive. The SL2 has the edge in build quality and EVF, but objectively, I can't say there's much else.

[Succisa75]

15 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Have you tried the GFX100s? I ask because it won't be generally available for another month, barring additional delays.

The video specs are nothing special so far, other than the sensor size. It will get raw at some point, but that hasn't happened yet. That being said, raw isn't a critical feature for the type of video that people shoot on mirrorless cameras (or for motion pictures, but that's another story for another day). The real question is "how does the video look in real life?" I think that Fuji released one short shot by highly-skilled professionals, but they can make anything look good.

I personally found previous Fuji MF cameras to have deficient AF. It just couldn't make-up its mind where to focus, so every half-press of the shutter was a roll of the dice. No doubt it locked-on fairly fast, but always on a different spot. I'm sure they've optimized the algorithm, but it may be wise to wait for production cameras and production firmware before making definitive statements.

I am not trying to knock what is no-doubt a fine camera. It just seems like people on forums get over-excited every time there is a camera announcement by any brand. That excitement usually calms-down prior to release. Actually, it is replaced by another wave of excitement for a different camera. To me the new Fuji is a camera with a very specific mission statement: to steal every possible sale from the A7r. I think it will do that very well.

I’ve used it for a bit. A friend of mine was lucky to have long term access to one so I’ve tested it out a few times. 
 

Video is decent in terms of specs. It’s missing 120fps in HD and 4K but besides that, it will record 12 bit raw from an. atomos which is quite impressive. Not many need it like you said but good to have the option. 
 

Video out of the GFX100 system is actually very nice. The lenses do a good job with AF in movie mode depending on the lens. 
 

AF for stills is really fast! They say 0.18 sec and it’s there.  Faster than previous GFX systems. Also faster than the SL2. That’s due to the phase detect and BSI sensor they have in it. 
 

I think it’s an option for those that pride their camera choices for high quality images.  The lenses are very good, IQ out of the sensor very impressive.

I think why it was brought up in this chat is due to the price, it’s equal to the SL2 etc.  

[SJH]

16 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

This is the beauty of Leica. It does feel special to hold and use. I think the debate here is, is Leica doing enough for existing and potentially new customers to keep them in the SL and L Mount system? 
 

While Fujifilm might not have the name and prestige of Leica, nor the build quality yet, (the GFX 100s is the best so far though), they created a tool that is a medium format camera in a smaller body than the SL2 with IBIS, arguably better video specs than the SL2 and comparable to the SL2-S with much better AF for a price that equals the SL2. 
in addition better Low light performance and Image quality. MF vs FF. 

Can Leica continue on this path of minimal updates and rely solely on build quality and brand. Can they make the L Mount system competitive in a time where economics play a major role now with the pandemic. Should they be more aggressive in marketing and pricing? 

I think that’s the bigger picture here. I maybe wrong, but the GFX100s is a bit of a wake up call for some, that use a camera for more professional needs. 
 

I think you've hit the nail on the head, 14 months ago the SL2 didn't look too far behind outside its core strengths, today we now have the R5, R6 and A1. Nikon should soon release their Z1 and Canon an R1, Panasonic must be having to make major decision on where to take the S2 and S2R re AF as the S1 and S1R can't really be selling very well now. Panasonic's decisions will of course have a significant impact on Leica's approach.

If the S2 and S2R come later this year I think Panasonic know there have to be major AF enhancements, it then looks like a long way out to the SL3 and will Leica really want to play here give the new camera's from Fuji, Canon, Sony and Nikon if Panasonic can't cut it?

The value to performance ration is getting worse by the month unfortunately for the SL2.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Mr.Q]

^ not to mention the size/weight to performance ratio as well.