GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[padam]

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10 minutes ago, SrMi said:

It seems that GFX100 continues to be sold new without any price reduction. GFX100S is not a replacement for GFX100, therefore I assume that the depreciation is not increasing.

It does, check out owner's groups with some furious GFX100 owners who were struggling with selling them even before this model.

Of course they will continue to sell it while they are working on a replacement, but they were aware how the demand it going to shift away now, so it is not a problem at all for Fuji, they just need to sell cameras and lenses.
But some reviewers say that even for the same price they would go for the GFX100S, and I can't see why not, for a few compromises it is just a much smaller and lighter, better, more refined version with a newer, better battery and IBIS system, quieter shutter (ok in exchange it is a bit better damped in the old one) or if you really want the "old" version for the better EVF, etc., you will be able to buy it for about the same price or even less slightly used.

Edited January 29, 2021 by padam

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, padam said:

It does, check out owner's groups with some furious GFX100 owners who were struggling with selling them even before this model.

<snip>

As a GFX100 owner, I mostly read the MF forum on DPR. I have not seen any furious reaction there. People are either staying with GFX100 or adding a GFX100S. It is not the same reaction as when Hasselblad introduced X1D replacement with a more attractive price.

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[aksclix]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

It seems that GFX100 continues to be sold new without any price reduction. GFX100S is not a replacement for GFX100, therefore I assume that the depreciation is not increasing.

I think it would eventually go down in price..

[Guest BlackBarn]

Over 1.1 billion digital cameras have been made over the last 20 years and no doubt more on their way as the camera manufacturers  live off new sales. There is a growing digital camera junk pile growing out there which will have to be disposed of in some way.

What is this madness of continually producing stuff which years ago nobody needed and the sole purpose of every camera manufacturer is to make the latest and greatest redundant by the following year.

[aksclix]

32 minutes ago, BlackBarn said:

Over 1.1 billion digital cameras have been made over the last 20 years and no doubt more on their way as the camera manufacturers  live off new sales. There is a growing digital camera junk pile growing out there which will have to be disposed of in some way.

What is this madness of continually producing stuff which years ago nobody needed and the sole purpose of every camera manufacturer is to make the latest and greatest redundant by the following year.

It’s true there are a few too many players out there churning out newer models too frequently.. it’s all business and everyone keeping their jobs too I suppose.. why do we even need a new iPhone coming out every year? Are they supposed to be good for one year only? This craze picked up last year and I do not understand why the same manufacturer needs 15 different brands of APS-C sensors.. Fuji, Sony and Panasonic have so many of them.. 

I think the next big thing would be modular systems. No matter what, they will get an upgrade a year and two after it’s launch luring customers in with a deal for upgrade 

[setuporg]

7 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Yes, simply because I can't envisage myself using my SL2 once I have the GFX100S that I ordered yesterday.

As I alluded above, this is due to to image quality, rather than handling, and it's hence similar to why I didn't use my Leica M7 very much after I purchased a Mamiya 7.

Unlike the Mamiya 7 vs Leica M7, the difference this time round is the 100mp medium format + GF 63mm lens is lighter than my  SL2 + 50mm SL Summicron ......

The SL Summicrons are amazing and give you that Leica look we all know and love.  The X1D does not do that.  Would GFX be any better?

As I said earlier, this whole unending ratrace just confirmed my inclination to stick with the S for OVF and amazing rendering in any situation with its gorgeous lenses.

[Jon Warwick]

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1 hour ago, setuporg said:

The SL Summicrons are amazing and give you that Leica look we all know and love.  The X1D does not do that.  Would GFX be any better?

As I said earlier, this whole unending ratrace just confirmed my inclination to stick with the S for OVF and amazing rendering in any situation with its gorgeous lenses.

hi, for nearly all the files I’ve played with off the GFX100, yes, I prefer these files for the very large 60” print size that I do compared to what I’ve got from the SL2 (even in its high resolution mode). That print size is admittedly likely a unique requirement for my situation in terms of resolution.

I’m also very used to 5x4 resolution at that print size, which feels c 100mp+.

I simply see more smoothness of tonality, more color depth (and higher resolution of course) from the 100mp Fuji than I do from an SL2 even though its files open to 56” at 300dpi in multi shot mode.

I have used the S2, S006 and S007 quite a bit, lovely cameras, but only 37mp resolution takes a lot of resampling (ie, “faking” the detail in post) to get it to the required print size for me, however good its pixels are!

In comparison the 100mp resolution simply reminds me much more of the look that I get from my 5x4, it’s a simple as that. 

[setuporg]

1 hour ago, Jon Warwick said:

hi, for nearly all the files I’ve played with off the GFX100, yes, I prefer these files for the very large 60” print size that I do compared to what I’ve got from the SL2 (even in its high resolution mode). That print size is admittedly likely a unique requirement for my situation in terms of resolution.

I’m also very used to 5x4 resolution at that print size, which feels c 100mp+.

I simply see more smoothness of tonality, more color depth (and higher resolution of course) from the 100mp Fuji than I do from an SL2 even though its files open to 56” at 300dpi in multi shot mode.

I have used the S2, S006 and S007 quite a bit, lovely cameras, but only 37mp resolution takes a lot of resampling (ie, “faking” the detail in post) to get it to the required print size for me, however good its pixels are!

In comparison the 100mp resolution simply reminds me much more of the look that I get from my 5x4, it’s a simple as that. 

I can see that but I'd say it's a 0.001% of use cases for SL2/X1D/GFX/S.:). When we move into large-scale printing Phase One and other pro things start showing up...  I think the majority of users here are "power users" and probably few people even print.  So the question of look as it is on a large monitor and perhaps consumer size print is what matters, with various ergonomic qualities.  It's interesting to note that the monstrous and ugly original GFX100 did not feel like a threat to X1D that GFX100S does, and also it didn't feel like an encroachment onto the SL2 territory, which now it does.

I personally think that 50MP is already enough and all the advantages of X1D hold, it's just a work of art and a pleasure to carry.  The FF ecosystem includes all the M lenses and SL2 is secure there.  Hopefully the MP race will end soon when nobody will be able to discern the difference...

[aksclix]

Have you folks needing more resolution given the Topaz gigapixel AI a shot?

Their DeNoise AI is magical!!! 
 

 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, aksclix said:

Have you folks needing more resolution given the Topaz gigapixel AI a shot?

<snip>

Their DeNoise AI is magical!!! 
 

 

Jim Kasson has investigated Gigapixel AI here.

When comparing Z 6 (24 MP) to GFX100 : "...This is fairly impressive. They won’t stand close inspection next to the real 100 MP images, but they’re not bad at all."

[Succisa75]

I’ve had some time with the 100s as well as the SL2 and SL2-S 

Here are my unbiased thoughts:

The 100S is a very nice well built camera. Better feeling than any GFX camera before it. 
The grip feels good, very similar to the S1R grip, the size is close to the SL2 and the weight is relatively light for MF at 900 grams. 
Fujifilm went the way of Leica with minimal buttons on the back. Some might dislike this but I found it refreshing. 
 

The EVF while lower resolution than the 100 or even the SL2,  holds it’s own. I couldn’t tell it was 3.69 million dots. The refresh rate is good and the image is bright and clear. 
 

AF is fast for MF and comparable to other full frame cameras. I would say it’s equal to or slightly faster than the SL2-S but with eye and face tracking. Fujifilm is touting 0.18 sec to acquire focus and that’s about right. 
 

Video quality is also quite impressive. Yes you really get some beautiful Depth of field with medium format. Additionally they already have compatibility with Atomos at launch? Leica, no word on that  

downsides to the 100S is that Fujifilm needs to update the menu system and add touch to it. Additionally UHS-II cards only does limit the future proofing of the camera. The future is CF Express and once you use that it’s hard to go back to standard SD cards. 
 

What the SL2/S have going for it is a beautiful design, Leica branding and a better menu.  
I think this year will pose a big challenge to Leica for the SL system especially when it comes to usability vs price. For some it’s about the quality and the feeling of using a Leica that will be most important, others who need a camera for work will prob opt for The other brands.  
 

I was hoping for more aggressive updates from Leica on the SL system but it seems that’s not the case. 
 

[aksclix]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

Jim Kasson has investigated Gigapixel AI here.

When comparing Z 6 (24 MP) to GFX100 : "...This is fairly impressive. They won’t stand close inspection next to the real 100 MP images, but they’re not bad at all."

Yep.. gotta love the tech these days with AI especially

[aksclix]

13 minutes ago, Succisa75 said:

I’ve had some time with the 100s as well as the SL2 and SL2-S 

Here are my unbiased thoughts:

The 100S is a very nice well built camera. Better feeling than any GFX camera before it. 
The grip feels good, very similar to the S1R grip, the size is close to the SL2 and the weight is relatively light for MF at 900 grams. 
Fujifilm went the way of Leica with minimal buttons on the back. Some might dislike this but I found it refreshing. 
 

The EVF while lower resolution than the 100 or even the SL2,  holds it’s own. I couldn’t tell it was 3.69 million dots. The refresh rate is good and the image is bright and clear. 
 

AF is fast for MF and comparable to other full frame cameras. I would say it’s equal to or slightly faster than the SL2-S but with eye and face tracking. Fujifilm is touting 0.18 sec to acquire focus and that’s about right. 
 

Video quality is also quite impressive. Yes you really get some beautiful Depth of field with medium format. Additionally they already have compatibility with Atomos at launch? Leica, no word on that  

downsides to the 100S is that Fujifilm needs to update the menu system and add touch to it. Additionally UHS-II cards only does limit the future proofing of the camera. The future is CF Express and once you use that it’s hard to go back to standard SD cards. 
 

What the SL2/S have going for it is a beautiful design, Leica branding and a better menu.  
I think this year will pose a big challenge to Leica for the SL system especially when it comes to usability vs price. For some it’s about the quality and the feeling of using a Leica that will be most important, others who need a camera for work will prob opt for The other brands.  
 

I was hoping for more aggressive updates from Leica on the SL system but it seems that’s not the case. 
 

Love the grip on s1r, if the 100s feels like it then it’s awesome!! 
 

 

[ZHNL]

Keep the SL2, it feel too good with M lens to let it go. Preordered 100s and 80. Will see how it go from there.

[SJH]

I've been all in with Leica for a while now and have an M10R, MP, M10M and SL2-S with most of the decent glass. I ditched my Sony stuff a few years ago as I just felt it was technically brilliant but had terrible ergonomics and menu's etc. 

I changed over to the SL2-S from an SL2 on the basis of the better ISO performance and AF (with updates to come shortly), I also find the ISO performance of my M10R significantly better than the SL2. On the topic subject I think that the SL2 probably has more than enough resolution for most people but it's AF is now lagging even Fuji's Medium format and is at the bottom of the full frame league now - even behind Panasonic (something I've posted about before). Given the SL2's has 47mb and is priced at £5k in the UK I actually think Leica really has an issue now that both the R5 and A1 have launched, this will be compounded further when Canon launch the R1 and Nikon launch an equivalent later this year.

The A1 in particular could be the 'jack of all trades' camera and is probably the SL2's biggest threat with both 50mb and market leading AF, twice the resolution EVF and 30fps, I think the GFX100s is more specialised for those that want to 'print big' and have the computing power to deal with the files!! I'd suggest Leica pull out all the stops to improve the SL2's AF as otherwise is going to look very dated for £5k only a year after launch.

However, a compelling option for many SL owners could be to purchase an A9ii which can be sourced for £3k now (imports) at half the price of the A1 and use that for those AF intense requirements and keep the SL2 for everything else with it's wonderful handling/files etc.

[Succisa75]

39 minutes ago, SJH said:

I've been all in with Leica for a while now and have an M10R, MP, M10M and SL2-S with most of the decent glass. I ditched my Sony stuff a few years ago as I just felt it was technically brilliant but had terrible ergonomics and menu's etc. 

I changed over to the SL2-S from an SL2 on the basis of the better ISO performance and AF (with updates to come shortly), I also find the ISO performance of my M10R significantly better than the SL2. On the topic subject I think that the SL2 probably has more than enough resolution for most people but it's AF is now lagging even Fuji's Medium format and is at the bottom of the full frame league now - even behind Panasonic (something I've posted about before). Given the SL2's has 47mb and is priced at £5k in the UK I actually think Leica really has an issue now that both the R5 and A1 have launched, this will be compounded further when Canon launch the R1 and Nikon launch an equivalent later this year.

The A1 in particular could be the 'jack of all trades' camera and is probably the SL2's biggest threat with both 50mb and market leading AF, twice the resolution EVF and 30fps, I think the GFX100s is more specialised for those that want to 'print big' and have the computing power to deal with the files!! I'd suggest Leica pull out all the stops to improve the SL2's AF as otherwise is going to look very dated for £5k only a year after launch.

However, a compelling option for many SL owners could be to purchase an A9ii which can be sourced for £3k now (imports) at half the price of the A1 and use that for those AF intense requirements and keep the SL2 for everything else with it's wonderful handling/files etc.

Well unfortunately the Perspective Correction was given to the M cameras first while the SL2 which is touted as a professional camera doesn’t get it currently. 
 

don’t quite understand the thought process on that, but maybe there will be a valid explanation 

[Yuhau]

 If Fuji will issue a 50 MPX version of the NEW  GFX 100-s, offering faster AF and  better high ISO noise performance similar to the  case of SL2-s on  SL2, 

they may have a real winner.  As much as 100MPX sounds very attractive,  not everyone wants to deal with such large files. 

[jankap]

Am 29.1.2021 um 09:19 schrieb P1505:

Last night I spent a lovely hour with some coffee and photo books. And I realised I could use a basic 6mp camera to achieve the types of shots I love.

Perhaps a GFX with a 24 MB sensor, a GFX24S could be a step in the direction: "smaller is nice too". 

[P1505]

So larger sensor with less pixels? Would that offer something more than a 50mp FF? Is the size the important factor?

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[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Well unfortunately the Perspective Correction was given to the M cameras first while the SL2 which is touted as a professional camera doesn’t get it currently. 
 

don’t quite understand the thought process on that, but maybe there will be a valid explanation 

It is, in a way, strange, but I am glad that at least M10-R got it. Maybe if we heap enough praise on that feature, Leica engineering will add it to SL2 as well :).