A New Year Wish for the M System

[martinot]

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21 minutes ago, astrostl said:

I did not and do not necessarily conflate criticism of the CCP with criticism of Chinese people. I did observe that making unsolicited and unvalidated assertions about Chinese government subsidies is politically-loaded. I come here to discuss M system cameras and lenses, including relevant facts. Please discuss your views on the CCP with somebody else, somewhere else.

The CCP might not subside the lenses discussed in this thread, but they do subside other types of products.

Well, I am so sorry to inform you that your do not decide what to discuss or not as long as your not admin. The post was just in line with the ones you posted yourself, and the topic at hand.

 

[astrostl]

4 hours ago, martinot said:

The CCP might not subside the lenses discussed in this thread, but they do subside other types of products.

Okay.

4 hours ago, martinot said:

Well, I am so sorry to inform you that your do not decide what to discuss or not as long as your not admin. 

I am not passive-aggressively so sorry to inform you that it was a request, not a command, so this reaction is especially inappropriate.

4 hours ago, martinot said:

The post was just in line with the ones you posted yourself, and the topic at hand.

The ones I posted were asking for evidence regarding a controversial tangent. That was many pages ago, and I dropped it after no evidence could be provided and it became especially clear that it was irrelevant to the topic either way. I doubt I am alone in hoping that it stays back there.

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[fisheess]

9 hours ago, martinot said:

Just add beer and popcorn! 😺

Bretzel feels offended.

[P1505]

What seems clear is that Leica already have spoken about what their customers want. The M shooters want the minimal, cut down experience that is the rangefinder patch and manual everything with no video. In the interviews posted earlier in this thread they discuss this in detail.

And then you have the second camp which want a Q without a fixed lens. Possibly an L Mount Q. They suggest the SL line meets those needs.

I do wonder if Leica can or should play in this area. It seems to be a race to the bottom, these cameras are everywhere and are effectively commodities. The M has no peers, the Q offers something similar if you decide you want to move to AF. But if you carry on down that path where do you arrive, and can Leica compete here?

Interesting to think what you’d do in terms of product roadmap.

[cirke]

On 2/23/2021 at 4:26 AM, Jeff S said:

Five possibilities already discussed, without the free car.

1. RF 

2. EVF

3. Both together... hybrid/dual viewing

4. Modernized (electronic?) RF

 5. Some combination of different versions, just like we have now (with/without screen, differing MP, mono/color, etc.

And leave it to Leica to surprise with a 6th unexpected outcome.

Jeff

4. and 5.  ERF  or 2 cameras  M and  QM  

Edited March 1, 2021 by cirke

[strohscw]

Am 22.2.2021 um 17:49 schrieb Steven:

On some EVF you can! One more reason to hate the visoflex 020. 

Steven, I do not understand why You hate the V020, its an addition, You can use it or not.

I love to have the possibility to add when I need it without to waive the OVF. I would love to get an update with more MPx for my M10M and not having to buy a new Camera.

Edited March 1, 2021 by strohscw

[Kwesi]

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7 hours ago, P1505 said:

What seems clear is that Leica already have spoken about what their customers want. The M shooters want the minimal, cut down experience that is the rangefinder patch and manual everything with no video. In the interviews posted earlier in this thread they discuss this in detail.

And then you have the second camp which want a Q without a fixed lens. Possibly an L Mount Q. They suggest the SL line meets those needs.

I do wonder if Leica can or should play in this area. It seems to be a race to the bottom, these cameras are everywhere and are effectively commodities. The M has no peers, the Q offers something similar if you decide you want to move to AF. But if you carry on down that path where do you arrive, and can Leica compete here?

Interesting to think what you’d do in terms of product roadmap.

I think you've hit he nail on the head here, Its important to look at all of this from Leica's point of view.

The M is already a moneymaker for Leica. after all (PQ=R)  price times quantity = revenue. Leica has decided that with the the M the best way to maintain desired R is to keep Q stable(low) and P high.

 

[Steven]

11 hours ago, strohscw said:

I do not understand why You hate the V020

Dont get me wrong. I love the idea of an optional EVF. I just hate the V020 because of its bad quality and execution. It is just horrible. And for this price, shameful. Very old technology. 

Give me a visoflex with the quality of the SL2's EVF, or even with the Sony A7iii EVF, and ill be happy. 

 

[graphlex]

Presumably power requirements and battery size are constraints for the M10. 

[P1505]

Can confirm the M10 battery life is poor. I’d take 3-4 spare batteries sold at sensible money over a big lump on the bottom of this jewel.

[Steven]

My M10 is my camera with the second longest battery life after my M7. And I have a lot of cameras. 

[fisheess]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:06 AM, martinot said:

You have things mixed up. Discussing and criticizing a brutal dictatorship and regime like CCP, is not the same thing as being critical of Chinese people (even if CCP would like to fool you into thinking that).

I hate to go off topic again, but I still want to speak a few words about this. Even if you did not mean to critisize the Chinese people, your statement still achieves the same effect. It diminishes the effort of Chinese people trying to earn a better life with honest hard work.

[adan]

Just for everyone's reference, effective since 2013:

Zitat

No more political, ideological or religious discussion

Café Leitz and Barnack's Bar were set up at the end of 2011 as a place for off-topic discussions. Lately it has become, unfortunately, a place for regulars to air subjects which have nothing to do with Leica or photography (OK, off-topic) but do have maximum potential for stirring up trouble. And that is not OK.

The conflicts and animosities in Café Leitz / Barnack's Bar are spreading to other parts of the forum. That is why, with immediate effect, we are going to close and remove discussions of that kind in Café Leitz / Barnack's Bar and elsewhere. Our decision will appear subjective but it is based on our experience as a moderator and on what is best for the forum.

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by LUF Admin
Quote formatted as quote

[P1505]

I’m comparing it to the life of the M9, which was measured in decades  The battery lived longer than the sensor!

Its VERY strange and lovely to be getting used to rangefinder again. All my horizons are wonky 🤯 But! The images are wonderful.

[LUF Admin]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb adan:

Just for everyone's reference, effective since 2013:

Thanks Adan, for pointing this out – again.

Please leave out policital remarks

And please report such posts so we can step in early…

Andreas