Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2

[nicci78]

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2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Sigma fp also - no heat pipes or fan - just a heat sink, a small addition to an already small camera. 

Sigma fp is a video camera first. Still camera second. Just like Z cam before it. Very small and competent  camcorder in a tiny form factor. Just add anything you need around it. 

 

[LocalHero1953]

15 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Sigma fp is a video camera first. Still camera second. Just like Z cam before it. Very small and competent  camcorder in a tiny form factor. Just add anything you need around it. 

 

I have the fp and have owned the TL2. They are more or less the same in size, functionality and use, apart from the shutter - and the heat sink, which allows it to do long video.

I was responding to your statement "So far only Lumix S1H gives you very long recording. Nothing beats proper heat pipes and fan." If you want to define the Sigma as a video camera and the TL2 as a still camera to prove your point, so be it.

I would also add the Leica SL (I don't have the SL2) which can do long video if you record to an external recorder. This is nothing to do with heat management, which the SL does well. It's all about avoiding EU taxes on 'foreign' video recorders.

Edited August 11, 2020 by LocalHero1953

[nicci78]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:08 PM, DirkS said:

Maybe because Sony as a world player can pay lots of more money for developements ?

Leica just have to pay Panasonic for their IBIS tech. Panasonic use it for ages inside tiny m4/3 cameras. 
So it not a problem for Leica to get a tiny IBIS unit for CL2. 

[bags27]

I love the IQ of still photos coming out of the fp. If it weren't for the very awkward EVF add-on, I'd give it quite serious thought as a backup digital body.

[NERICSSON]

19 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Such remarks about videos led us to very poorly design Q2. No video button is clearly worst than a real one. At least you can deactivate the dedicated record button. Now Leica Q2 needs to rely on weird gesture, or special menu to toggle to video. Which is much more annoying for everybody. 

Seems Q2 is the prefered choice until videoless SL2 "mini" comes and saves the day 🙂  Rear-LCD would be another feature I would find ok to sacrifice in order to reduce size...

[NERICSSON]

On 8/11/2020 at 1:15 AM, nicci78 said:

Just buy the M10 and let every other hybrid still/video cameras alone.

Are they adding IBIS and AF via firmware update? 😉

[nicci78]

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So you are out of luck. You will have to live with video functions. Get over it. 

[nicci78]

On 8/11/2020 at 12:31 AM, bags27 said:

I think what is "saving" Leica is its licensing, especially, I'd imagine, with Hauwei

Leica's most recent financial statement (Bundesanzeiger Geschäftsbericht 4 / 2018-4 / 2019), which therefore actually covers the year 2018, states that the company achieved a turnover of 299 Million Euro (compared to 2017: 313). The licensing rights amount to 49 (54 Million). The system camera group and the compact camera group have a turnover of 140 and 74 (147 and 76). The system camera segment is back at the level of 2102/2013 and the compact camera segment is at the level before 2010. Without licenses, turnover would fall back to a level of 2011. The management's statements indicate that a decline of 8-9% is expected for 2019 and no statements are made for 2020, but the Covid-19 virus represents a 10% decline for all companies throughout Germany.

https://photo.imx.nl/blog/

It is quite worrisome. Leica is losing revenue before the coronavirus. 
Of course 2018 did not cover the released of Q2 and SL2. But they still think that they will lose 8-9% of revenue in 2019 ! Despite two major releases. 

Licensing fees is certainly from Panasonic m4/3, Huawei smartphones and Insta360 action cams. 
But I suspect that Huawei smartphones business will be hard to maintain after the last round of sanctions from US government. 
Sadly Leica bet on the wrong horse. 
 

I suspect that 2020 will be very very hard on Leica. They own their own stores. Meaning huge rent lost during the pandemic. 
Selling very expensive stuffs in those times is not really a good idea. 

[nicci78]

19 hours ago, lct said:

No over heat problem here apparently:

https://youtu.be/iDZHHO3baxU

 

https://www.l-rumors.com/the-a7siii-may-overheats-too-which-means-the-panasonic-s1h-is-still-the-only-100-reliable-camera-in-its-class/
But it does overheat here. 

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, nicci78 said:

It is quite worrisome. Leica is losing revenue before the coronavirus. 
Of course 2018 did not cover the released of Q2 and SL2. But they still think that they will lose 8-9% of revenue in 2019 ! Despite two major releases. 

Licensing fees is certainly from Panasonic m4/3, Huawei smartphones and Insta360 action cams. 
But I suspect that Huawei smartphones business will be hard to maintain after the last round of sanctions from US government. 
Sadly Leica bet on the wrong horse. 
 

I suspect that 2020 will be very very hard on Leica. They own their own stores. Meaning huge rent lost during the pandemic. 
Selling very expensive stuffs in those times is not really a good idea. 

I'm not sure that the numbers are that bad, given the present state of the economy... I'm sure that we have members who can give a qualified opinion.

 

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[Rick in CO]

OK.  To get back on the initial subject track, Stefan Daniel's recent comments about continuing the APS line are reassuring.  A consensus for minimum improvements in a CL2 would likely be: 1) an improved APC-sized sensor (an evolutionary upgrade with or without an increase in pixels),  2) a higher resolution EVF (readily available in-house?),  3) weather sealing (relatively easy to add),  4) IBIS, if possible in the same body shell (recent economics might dictate this),  5) a battery upgrade (same reservation as #4).  

A 15mm wide angle (ie. 24mm equiv) lens would be nice, as would adding O.I.S. to the 55-135 zoom.

Too much to ask?

[cirke]

sounds good 

and for me a summicron portrait lens 90mm eqv

[nicci78]

Sony A7C just proved that small Full frame with IBIS is possible in a body around the same size as CL. 
 

Then no more excuse to add IBIS within CL body for next CL2. 

Otherwise it will dead on arrival. Maybe Leica should not even bother and released a small interchangeable version of Q2. (With IBIS of course) 

[jaapv]

On 8/12/2020 at 6:25 PM, Rick in CO said:

a higher resolution EVF (readily available in-house?),

Possibly not in the right size yet.

[Michael Markey]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Sony A7C just proved that small Full frame with IBIS is possible in a body around the same size as CL. 
 

Then no more excuse to add IBIS within CL body for next CL2. 

Otherwise it will dead on arrival. Maybe Leica should not even bother and released a small interchangeable version of Q2. (With IBIS of course) 

I think you`re correct .

Whatever plans Leica had for a second iteration of the CL will need to take into account what is offered by the new Sony (and then some ) or it could be dead in the water .

[lct]

Sony makes APS-C cameras too. I have a FF Sony but never compare it to my CL although i mostly use M lenses on them. Different formats. Different markets. Apples vs oranges IMHO. 

[Michael Markey]

On 9/15/2020 at 5:57 PM, lct said:

Sony makes APS-C cameras too. I have a FF Sony but never compare it to my CL although i mostly use M lenses on them. Different formats. Different markets. Apples vs oranges IMHO. 

Very true .... I have a full frame Sony too (A7R2).

Use M lenses and three Zeiss Batis lenses with it .

Unfortunately I do compare it to the CL but , you`re correct , it is an unfair comparison .

[Chaemono]

Dear Leica,

Please, repackage the S5's sensor and IBIS in an identical but smaller SL2 body. I would pay more for the SL2 button layout and a less obnoxious shutter sound. EVF is good enough but if you want to throw in a better one as a bonus (and charge more), go for it.

Thank you.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Chaemono

[dkCambridgeshire]

31 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Dear Leica,

Please, repackage the S5's sensor and IBIS in an identical but smaller SL2 body. I would pay more for the SL2 button layout and a less obnoxious shutter sound. EVF is good enough but if you want to throw in a better one as a bonus (and charge more), go for it.

Thank you.

The S5 would have been in design, development and beta testing for over 2 years ... as would any Leica variant. What is done, is done ... and short term there is no going back ... apart from firmware upgrades. Cameras are not designed overnight and EVFs are not just 'thrown in'.  EVF's (likely designed by Epson) also require many months development ... and would be an integral part of a new camera design from its inception.

dunk

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42 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Dear Leica,

Please, repackage the S5's sensor and IBIS in an identical but smaller SL2 body. I would pay more for the SL2 button layout and a less obnoxious shutter sound. EVF is good enough but if you want to throw in a better one as a bonus (and charge more), go for it.

Thank you.

Which would be a little sibling to the SL2, and belongs in another thread.

It’s hard to see how a mini-SL2 based on the S5 could be considered as a CL2, i.e., a successor to the CL. Completely different shape and handling, a video hybrid rather than a photographic tool, and incompatible with TL lenses except in 10 MPx crop mode.

Certainly you are welcome to wish for a mini-SL2 to sit alongside the SL2, as a supplement or a cheaper entry point, but don’t call it a CL2.