21mm lenses

[Simone_DF]

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1 hour ago, Dennis said:

My point is that I would choose 100 times only Leica lens, there is not point of choosing a 21 CV vs a 21 Leica, because all the benefits we all know. Period.

There's a point in choosing another brand if the other non-Leica brand produces lenses that are arguably the same level or even better than Leica's offering.

As of now, Voigtlander is producing the best new M glass hands down, see the 75mm, the new 50mm or the 21mm 1.4.

All I see from Leica recent offerings are bizarre and fairly useless (for my personal use) lenses like the Thambar and the Summaron or the deadly 75 / 90 Lux which weight a ton, are humongous and price wise are simply insane.

I'd go for a new Voigtlander any day.

[lct]

21 minutes ago, pgk said:

Absolutely. But at least you can get a modern Leica lens corrected if there is a problem. Can soon be uneconomic, given its cost, to ship a lens around the world in the hope it will be fixable..... .

At Chinese prices it is less expensive to buy another lens . 

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[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, Dennis said:

That's correct. But if you put the lens hood in both, the VF blockage of the Zeiss is huge. But most important, $2,300 vs $5,900. 

As my previous post. I would choose the Summilux 100 times. But the price make the decision very hard. 

I've never used a lens hood on the Zeiss, I don't really need it, its flare resistance is excellent and I never felt the need to use one.

I'd recommend you to go to a shop that has both in stock and try both lenses before making a decision.

[ianman]

2 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

bizarre and fairly useless (for my personal use) lenses like the Thambar and the Summaron

😱

There's nothing bizarre about the Thambar or the Summaron.... of course I would say that as I have both!!!  Well, my Thambar is LTM.

But seriously the Summaron, is a GREAT lens. I could happily keep just that one!

[Simone_DF]

2 minutes ago, ianman said:

😱

There's nothing bizarre about the Thambar or the Summaron.... of course I would say that as I have both!!!  Well, my Thambar is LTM.

But seriously the Summaron, is a GREAT lens. I could happily keep just that one!

That's why I underlined "for my personal use" 😂

I don't shoot landscapes and I happen to shoot often with low available light, so 5.6 is too limited for me. But for the price it's sold, I'd just get another lens and stop it down. But, again, that's me and I understand that other people have different needs and preferences.

Re Thambar: fair enough, you have the old one, but the new model is sold at 6000€. I personally find it a gimmicky lens, and I'd buy a Lensbaby Velvet for 500€ or less if I really wanted that look. 

[Dennis]

7 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

There's a point in choosing another brand if the other non-Leica brand produces lenses that are arguably the same level or even better than Leica's offering.

Of course. I'm talking also w/o having tried any of the three 21mm in question 😂 I just know what I read here, around the web and the reviews. I'm in love with my M10 and I'm not a pixel peeper. But with all my lack of experience, I'm telling you the reason, IMO, why I would prefer Leica lenses:

• 6 bit coded. Only one User Profile, set in auto lens detection and voila. 
• The great Leica focus tab. It's very helpful to master better zone focusing. I dislike the tiny knob of my Zeiss 35 Biogon
• The esthetics of a Leica lens is beautiful, no doubt at all
• Better value for the future 

16 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I've never used a lens hood on the Zeiss, I don't really need it, its flare resistance is excellent and I never felt the need to use one.

I don't use and believe on UV filters, and I'm a bit rough using the camera, the lens hood is needed for protection 

22 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

non-Leica brand produces lenses that are arguably the same level or even better than Leica's offering

Awesome. Which do you think are the Voigtlander lenses that are the same level or even better than Leica? I would love to know 

[fatihayoglu]

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Very happy with my Zeiss 21 ZM 2.8, I highly recommended that one.

[Keith (M)]

Anyone with experience of performance of the VM 21mm f3.5 Color-Skopar on the 41Mp M10M? Being old and very decrepit I am attracted by its 180g weight!  Otherwise it is going to be 260g of SEM...

[bags27]

1 minute ago, Keith (M) said:

Anyone with experience of performance of the VM 21mm f3.5 Color-Skopar on the 41Mp M10M? Being old and very decrepit I am attracted by its 180g weight!  Otherwise it is going to be 260g of SEM...

Not to mention an extra $2500! That's around $800/ounce. Reminds me of my cycling days, when I swapped out a Dura-Ace derailleur for an Ultegra, because the latter just happened to shift better with my French crank set. The cost difference was around $100 cheaper. For fun, my mechanic weighed the two: Ultegra was just a couple of grams heavier. Cost margins are brutal compared to performance margins when you get to the very top.

[Keith (M)]

6 minutes ago, bags27 said:

Not to mention an extra $2500! That's around $800/ounce. Reminds me of my cycling days, when I swapped out a Dura-Ace derailleur for an Ultegra, because the latter just happened to shift better with my French crank set. The cost difference was around $100 cheaper. For fun, my mechanic weighed the two: Ultegra was just a couple of grams heavier. Cost margins are brutal compared to performance margins when you get to the very top.

Marginal gains...

With ref to my post #40, either the f3.5 Color-Skopar or SEM will feel somewhat featherweight in comparison to my current 21mm usage - 600g of 21-35 Vario Elmar-R + R to M adaptor.  My hesitation over the Color-Skopar is whether or not it is capable of doing justice to the M10M's sensor.

[giannis]

7 hours ago, Dennis said:

there is not point of choosing a 21 CV vs a 21 Leica

now with the pandemic no budget at all, $3,300 vs $700

I guess that's a pretty strong reason then 😅

A lens you can afford, by default, is infinitely better than a lens you can't afford, for your use case. A lens you can acquire now, and start using straight away and obtaining photos from it, is much much better than not shooting any photos at all for some months or a year or two, until you can afford the "better" lens. The small differences in image quality can't make up for months/years of lost photo opportunities. Even if you had the money, an argument can be made how it would help your photography more to buy the cheaper lens and use the rest for a holiday or a trip where you can take interesting photos.

So stop worrying and comparing lenses, get the lens you can afford, and start shooting. Any photos at all are better than no photos  

 

[jdlaing]

The voice of  reason.

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, giannis said:

A lens you can afford, by default, is infinitely better than a lens you can't afford, for your use case. A lens you can acquire now, and start using straight away and obtaining photos from it, is much much better than not shooting any photos at all for some months or a year or two, until you can afford the "better" lens. So stop worrying and comparing lenses, get the lens you can afford, and start shooting. Any photos at all are better than no photos

You're absolutely right 🙌  

Edited June 19, 2020 by Dennis

[Ko.Fe.]

7 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

There's a point in choosing another brand if the other non-Leica brand produces lenses that are arguably the same level or even better than Leica's offering.

As of now, Voigtlander is producing the best new M glass hands down, see the 75mm, the new 50mm or the 21mm 1.4.

All I see from Leica recent offerings are bizarre and fairly useless (for my personal use) lenses like the Thambar and the Summaron or the deadly 75 / 90 Lux which weight a ton, are humongous and price wise are simply insane.

I'd go for a new Voigtlander any day.

Cosina is on the right path with their VM lenses. Smaller than previous versions, but better performance.  Even old ones are still very appealing.

I'm waiting in the mail for original 21/4 LTM and their 75 2.5 LTM seems to be very good lens even on digital Ms. 

[probert]

I have the Elmarit 21 2.8, Canadian. The first one I bought had a focusing issue, so I sent it back. The second one caused horrible vignetting, so I sent it back. The third one was perfect. I had it coded as a 21mm for use on the m10. Wonderful lens. No color shifts at all. Here's a sample.

The moral of the story: If you can find an Elmarit for a good price, go for it, after trying it out. The one I have is the version with the pins sticking out for the sun hood. The one I sent back with the heavy vignetting was the other version.

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[omalat]

I don't know about the new Voigtlander but I used to have the old Color Skopar 21mm f4 and it was tiny, super sharp and a joy. It was great on the old M8 and M6 but on the full frame digital cameras I found it could be very hit and miss with metering. You should consider a Zeiss Biogon 21mm f2.8. It is bigger than the Voigtlander and Leica but a deluxe product and relatively cheap. Also takes the same size filters as your 28 and your 50 and it has no problems with M meters.

[foto2021]

6 minutes ago, omalat said:

I don't know about the new Voigtlander but I used to have the old Color Skopar 21mm f4 and it was tiny, super sharp and a joy. It was great on the old M8 and M6 but on the full frame digital cameras I found it could be very hit and miss with metering. You should consider a Zeiss Biogon 21mm f2.8. It is bigger than the Voigtlander and Leica but a deluxe product and relatively cheap. Also takes the same size filters as your 28 and your 50 and it has no problems with M meters.

+1 here for the ZM 21/2.8. I’m surprised it hasn’t had more mentions in this thread. I’m very happy with its performance on my M9.

[luisrq]

On 6/14/2020 at 11:32 PM, ianman said:

Challenging, not unsusable.

M9, 21mm Super-Angulon f/3.4, developed with Iridient Developer, no correction.

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In my opinion this is the best lens 21mm made for Leica, I've had the 21mm f4 Súper Angulon R, it was fantastic. I've never tested the new Súper Elmar 21 f3,4 and I don't know how it compares to the Súper Angulon. 

[pgk]

19 minutes ago, luisrq said:

In my opinion this is the best lens 21mm made for Leica, I've had the 21mm f4 Súper Angulon R, it was fantastic. I've never tested the new Súper Elmar 21 f3,4 and I don't know how it compares to the Súper Angulon. 

I have both the 3.4 SA and the SEM. The SA is very sharp centrally, has at times a slightly odd 'bokeh' due to its square aperture, can flare badly (although effectively too), and suffers from vignetting and colour cast problems in the corners which need some degree of correction. The SEM is sharp all over, has no 'bokeh' oddities, hardly flares and has no colour casts and less vignetting. I like both.

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[luisrq]

12 minutes ago, pgk said:

I have both the 3.4 SA and the SEM. The SA is very sharp centrally, has at times a slightly odd 'bokeh' due to its square aperture, can flare badly (although effectively too), and suffers from vignetting and colour cast problems in the corners which need some degree of correction. The SEM is sharp all over, has no 'bokeh' oddities, hardly flares and has no colour casts and less vignetting. I like both.

Thanks for your useful information

On 6/14/2020 at 11:32 PM, ianman said:

Challenging, not unsusable.

M9, 21mm Super-Angulon f/3.4, developed with Iridient Developer, no correction.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

In my opinion this is the best lens 21mm made for Leica, I've had the 21mm f4 Súper Angulon R, it was fantastic. I've never tested the new Súper Elmar 21 f3,4 and I don't know how it compares to the Súper Angulon.