Chazphoto Posted February 24, 2020 Share #1 Posted February 24, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oh learned forum members, I’ve taken the step up to an M10 from my beloved M9-P and am looking to dress it up with a new strap. I have avidly consumed the various strap threads and consider myself well-versed in the various options. I’ve also looked hard at my emerging short list and have a few questions to ask those of you with hands on experience of the relevant straps. 1) I have an Annie Barton 1972 Carerra strap from my M9. The strap is about half an inch (13mm) wide and very soft/pliable. I know that I often hold the camera against my front with the strap tight against my index finger. It seems to me that this would be hard to do with the Harry Benz strap because of the thickened protective end of the strap, no? 2) The other main contender is the Rock and Roll strap from the (now) eponymous firm. I gather that this is 20mm wide and can see that the ends are comprised of a doubled loop connecting the chain structure to the rings. Is this part of the strap flexible? My guess is less than the Annie Barton and more than the Harry Benz, right? 3) That same part of the RnR strap is secured by four stitches, one in each corner of the rectangle. At the end near the chain link strap, two stitches pass through three layers of leather to secure the loop. Has anyone experienced this stitching giving way or noticed it wearing out? (The Benz and the Annie Barton have more stitches in this area, for what that’s worth.) 4) The protective tabs around the rings On my Carerra strap can get a folded corner and expose the rings to the body, because the leather is so soft The RnR protective leather circles look firmer and quite elegant. Is the leather too thick and could it rub the body of the M? 5) Despite learned and aesthetic commentary, I quite like the small pad of wider leather on the Carerra strap. The Benz is 13mm throughout and the RnR 20mm I don’t have heavy lenses, so this is a moot point, but anyone have a view on which strap is more comfortable - if you have used both! There endeth the search for minute differences between otherwise excellent products. On the way, I note that several other straps are worthy contenders but got ruled out for small reasons. I can’t figure out how the ropey straps stitch into the leather ends and nylon rope (no matter how good in utility and feel) doesn’t fit well. The Eddycam leather I like, but nylon ends and metal fittings I don’t. Hawksmill has the virtue of being British (I’m based in London) but is very similar to a less well marketed English brand and although Horwen leather is good stuff I’m not convinced by the stitching or design. Braided and thick leather strand designs seem unwieldy and won’t spread load, though some of the braid work is very attractive. thanks to anyone willing to go down into this dark and narrow space with me! Chaz Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 Hi Chazphoto, Take a look here Highly technical strap questions!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
a.noctilux Posted February 24, 2020 Share #2 Posted February 24, 2020 After trying some nice straps in various brands and materials, years after years, ... ... I end up with the plain Leica 14312 straps not the nicest looking but the most practical, souple and strong with bonus very simple to attach/detach when needed. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted February 24, 2020 Share #3 Posted February 24, 2020 I use straps from Peak Design. Also easy to attach and detach. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 24, 2020 Share #4 Posted February 24, 2020 So do I I just replaced the (interestingly designed) TL strap by a Peak Design one. What a relief! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 24, 2020 Share #5 Posted February 24, 2020 Barton straps are the best of the rest, but sitting in front of the TV for an evening scrunching up and twisting around your new Leica strap into knots kind of does the same thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpittal Posted February 24, 2020 Share #6 Posted February 24, 2020 I use Harry Benz straps on most of my cameras. I wear the camera cross-ways so the long option fits well and the straps slide very nicely when I bring a camera up to shoot. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazphoto Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted February 25, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks all. Being a lawyer in my day job, I have a bad habit of writing numbered lists in the hope of numbered responses! Would love any direct experience of the issues! re the strap sliding thing, I’ve read some concern about the RnR straps not sliding, though I associate that with the cigar brown matt strap rather than the polished leather black straps. What do you think? chaz Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpeeples Posted February 25, 2020 Share #8 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) I use this classic black from Rock and Roll. Its extremely supple and "squishes" down very nicely when packing my camera away. I like it as well as I like longer straps and was able to request a longer length. I use it with a Art D case. No issues with the sewn ends and I've never had a sliding issue. https://rocknrollstraps.com/shop/camera-straps/classic-straps/classic-all-black-strap/ Side note, I love peak too. What bothers me more about peak is that the strap tends to 'twist" so the little red clips at the end sometimes get twisted and I have to untwist. Very minor in the scheme of things though. Edited February 25, 2020 by lpeeples Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted February 25, 2020 Share #9 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) For Leica M: To slide or not to slide? No slide = the stock Leica strap 14312 straps or the "Upstrap" http://www.upstrap-pro.com/ or Rock n Roll or countless others. I have had that four loop stitching come apart on one of my RnR straps though, and had to re-do it myself. Came out great. Slide = Harry Benz! Except that unless they have changed, I don't like his split rings because the way the ends are cut, they are very sharp and can chew up your strap lugs on the camera. Rock n Roll straps have wonderful split rings with a soft bevel on the ends that prevents that. I purchased some from Rock n Roll and put them on my HB straps. I personally remove and throw away those leather tabs, as they do nothing at all. It is physically impossible for the metal ring to come in contact with the camera - try it. So you can have the end of the strap rub your camera or the leather tab rub your camera. What's the difference? If your camera is Black Chrome, the strap will wear a rub mark, although, cross chest carry minimizes or even prevents that swinging back and forth that wears the body. The PD strap with their little dongles to attach with eliminate this also, but these have metal buckles that are sharp and will ding your camera sooner or later. Also PD straps have no "Leica Mojo" they are better suited to CanNikons and Sonys. For my Leicas, the simpler the better. I love Harry Benz straps with RnR rings. I use PD straps on larger cameras and always remove them before putting the camera in the bag. Edited February 25, 2020 by Rob L edit Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazphoto Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted February 26, 2020 Thank you, Rob L in particular, because you’ve answered another technical question on split ring quality and ends. I have sharp ends on the new split ring for my car keys, which I need to deal with I’ve never had a slide or not slide problem with the Annie Barton 1972 Carerra. The underside of the pad has not become smoothed/compacted the way that the suede side of leather can go, so it has some grip for one-shoulder carry but I can still move from over the shoulder to around the neck or raise the camera to take a shot without problem. My ultra-reliable OpTech strap for the DSLR with the sticky nobbles under the neoprene and foam pad, would not slide but I can’t see that as being an M strap! Same for Peak Design for me, I’m afraid (apologies on the side to budjames of this forum). I appreciate the utility of the nylon strap in classic Leica form or the ends on the Eddycam straps, but I’m trying to stay away from plastics generally and certainly as an aesthetic with the M. In terms of the risk of rings contacting the body of the camera, I’m less confident or sanguine about that. I buy into the argument that this is a tool to be used and the marks of use are the scars of victory, etc. However, it’s also my beautiful baby and I want to cherish it! On the M9-P with the Carerra strap, the somewhat floppy protectors didn’t matter as much as I fear they might on the M10 without it’s bumpers. However, experimenting last night by moving the strap and rings around, I’d agree that it would be hard to see how the rings will connect to the body, esp the sides of the top plate. The thicker leather of the RnR strap end, even without Harry Benz’s design of deliberately thickening the connection, should make this impossible. Any other views or responses on the minutiae gratefully received. chaz Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFo Posted February 26, 2020 Share #11 Posted February 26, 2020 On 2/24/2020 at 1:10 PM, Chazphoto said: Oh learned forum members, .... 2) The other main contender is the Rock and Roll strap from the (now) eponymous firm. I gather that this is 20mm wide and can see that the ends are comprised of a doubled loop connecting the chain structure to the rings. Is this part of the strap flexible? My guess is less than the Annie Barton and more than the Harry Benz, right? 3) That same part of the RnR strap is secured by four stitches, one in each corner of the rectangle. At the end near the chain link strap, two stitches pass through three layers of leather to secure the loop. Has anyone experienced this stitching giving way or noticed it wearing out? (The Benz and the Annie Barton have more stitches in this area, for what that’s worth.) 4) The protective tabs around the rings On my Carerra strap can get a folded corner and expose the rings to the body, because the leather is so soft The RnR protective leather circles look firmer and quite elegant. Is the leather too thick and could it rub the body of the M? ... thanks to anyone willing to go down into this dark and narrow space with me! Chaz I am certainly the princess and and pea when it comes to camera straps. Presently on my M10P I use the RnR strap. To help answer... 2). The doubled section at the ends of the strap is slightly less flexible than the rest of the strap. For me not an issue. To frame this a little more, I used the Peak Design strap for a short while and the stupid plastic couplings at the camera drove me mad. They were always in my way. 3). The four sections of stitching are worth keeping an eye on. Mine are still fine. They look like an easy thing to fix if replacement or repair is needed. 4). The protective tabs I’m not so sure they do anything. I carry cross body, never in a bag, so the camera lives at my side. You can see in the image of my not-babied M10P the wear spot from the strap. I will say the quality of the RnR rings is really nice by the way. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306786-highly-technical-strap-questions/?do=findComment&comment=3920174'>More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 27, 2020 Share #12 Posted February 27, 2020 When I unboxed my new M10 a week or so ago, I had no idea what kind of strap was in the box. I was very pleasantly surprised. It looks good, feels good, and is very secure. I like it more than the previous straps that came from Leica, such as on the M8.2 cameras. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1312717-REG/leica_24023_m10_camera_strap.html/xpcur/XAUD/IWB/AU?gclid=CjwKCAiAy9jyBRA6EiwAeclQhOwIIHKVUvcELVwSKcfU9LvB6lFKsXpXqCjdLyEGzJwrC4yAcNGr8hoCfY4QAvD_BwE Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306786-highly-technical-strap-questions/?do=findComment&comment=3920456'>More sharing options...
Tom Johnston Posted February 27, 2020 Share #13 Posted February 27, 2020 You may have seen my contribution to this topic in another thread which includes a jpeg. I purchased the Leica 18 575 black leather strap which is similar to the standard one included with the M10. The difference is that it has adjustments for 3 lengths and a sliding pad. It is available in different colors. The short length lets the camera ride in a good place for me, a little higher, but not too high. I bought it at the Leica store in San Francisco- the guy who helped me said it too is the strap he uses though he removed the pad. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 27, 2020 Share #14 Posted February 27, 2020 Is this what you bought? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296572-REG/leica_18575_leather_carrying_strap_black.html It doesn't look like it's adjustable, or am I missing something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Johnston Posted February 27, 2020 Share #15 Posted February 27, 2020 1 minute ago, MikeMyers said: Is this what you bought? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296572-REG/leica_18575_leather_carrying_strap_black.html It doesn't look like it's adjustable, or am I missing something? Yes. The little slots and fasteners are subtly visible in the pic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 27, 2020 Share #16 Posted February 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Tom Johnston said: You may have seen my contribution to this topic in another thread which includes a jpeg. I purchased the Leica 18 575 black leather strap which is similar to the standard one included with the M10. The difference is that it has adjustments for 3 lengths and a sliding pad. It is available in different colors. The short length lets the camera ride in a good place for me, a little higher, but not too high. I bought it at the Leica store in San Francisco- the guy who helped me said it too is the strap he uses though he removed the pad. How can I find a link to the version you bought, with the adjustments? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Johnston Posted February 27, 2020 Share #17 Posted February 27, 2020 3 hours ago, MikeMyers said: How can I find a link to the version you bought, with the adjustments? Put in Leica 18575 in your search, then choose your favorite vendor- the price is usually $105, though Ado...has a used one at an attractive price. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 27, 2020 Share #18 Posted February 27, 2020 I did that - went to B&H, and found the same strap that is on my M10 right now, but didn't you say you found one that was adjustable? That's what I'm interested in seeing. I like the one that came with the camera, but I guess I'd prefer if it was a little shorter..... but I'm plenty happy with what Leica provided with the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Johnston Posted February 27, 2020 Share #19 Posted February 27, 2020 2 hours ago, MikeMyers said: I did that - went to B&H, and found the same strap that is on my M10 right now, but didn't you say you found one that was adjustable? That's what I'm interested in seeing. I like the one that came with the camera, but I guess I'd prefer if it was a little shorter..... but I'm plenty happy with what Leica provided with the camera. hello Mike, the original strap that came w my M10 is black leather and very nice, dressy, but not adjustable. I put some red dots on the product shot to indicate the adjustable components. I initially thought I'd just use my old Leica non leather strap but didn't like the idea of the plastic clip rubbing on the top plate. I also bought a Leica hand grip which meant I wouldn't be using a 1/2 case as has been my practice for many years, in part for body protection and to dampen the 9 shutter noise. If I hadn't gone with the grip, the Art & Artisan 1/2 case looks like it would give the protection against the rubbing and I could have used my old, favored strap. But I'm seeing if this old dog can learn some new tricks, or at least try something different. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306786-highly-technical-strap-questions/?do=findComment&comment=3920946'>More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 27, 2020 Share #20 Posted February 27, 2020 Aha! Sure, I know that strap. I just sent a non-working Leica M3 to the fellow who fixed my 90mm collapsible Summicron - this strap was on it, but I kept the strap. I like it, especially in the position to have the camera high on my body. Really nice strap! If it had come on my M10, I wouldn't have complained.... :-) I don't have that wider piece in the middle though. Probably lost that 40 years ago. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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