Leica Apo-Summicron-SL2.0/35mm - average performer?

[PeterGA]

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1 hour ago, NRKstudio said:

 

I was really just posting about the Nikon 50/1.8 to make the point that the SL Summicron lineup may be, unfortunately for us SL shooters, not as ground breaking as initially sold/marketed.  I really did believe the SL lenses were the end all, and better than any other mirrorless line-up.  It was one of the reasons I switched to the SL from an A7r4/r3 (aside from being able to use my M lenses).  
 

here’s the Nikon Z 85/1.8, much stronger showing than the 50/1.8Z and of course the Leica Summicron 75/2 SL.   I do thoroughly enjoy using my 50 SL APO, but it stings a little to know it’s not the revolutionary glass I thought it to be.  Note: it still won’t slow me down the least bit making pictures with it.  

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/nikon-nikkor-z-85mm-f18-s

Ok I understand now...

You need to decide what is important to you and your photography - otherwise you may be forever unhappy with your choice of equipment ...how much you spend and what reviews say are temporary filters - ultimately it is all about what makes you happy making the types of images you want to make. Cameras and lenses are not investments OR guarantees - they are just 'things'.

A number of people have made it clear in this thread one way or another that they choose to use this or that - because they like using this or that - it should be that simple for you too - otherwise ( maybe) you aren't sure of what you want and why you want it.

It is your journey.

Pete

[IkarusJohn]

3 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

 

I was really just posting about the Nikon 50/1.8 to make the point that the SL Summicron lineup may be, unfortunately for us SL shooters, not as ground breaking as initially sold/marketed.  I really did believe the SL lenses were the end all, and better than any other mirrorless line-up.  It was one of the reasons I switched to the SL from an A7r4/r3 (aside from being able to use my M lenses).  
 

here’s the Nikon Z 85/1.8, much stronger showing than the 50/1.8Z and of course the Leica Summicron 75/2 SL.   I do thoroughly enjoy using my 50 SL APO, but it stings a little to know it’s not the revolutionary glass I thought it to be.  Note: it still won’t slow me down the least bit making pictures with it.  

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/nikon-nikkor-z-85mm-f18-s

I know this will sound pollyannaish, but there is no reason for your purchase to “sting” because some web review doesn’t affirm your choice of equipment, and validate your good taste (stick with me).  You either buy your equipment because testing reviews confirm that you have the best (not just the most expensive), or you choose gear that you enjoy using and gives you good results.

For myself, I don’t have the time, patience or interest to test every option of every piece of equipment I need (or just want).  About 40 years ago, I was sitting in a café in Pokhara (Nepal) having a banana lassi.  Another backpacker came up and sat next to me and asked how much I paid for the lassi.  I said 2 rupees.  She looked at me with contempt and said, it would have been only 1 rupee if I’d bought my own banana.

I bought into Leica because I like the gestalt - the cameras appealed, as did the ethos of the company.  It still does.  I decided the focal lengths I wanted, read the reviews, made my choices on what I would like, and then largely ignored the reviews, safely in the knowledge I’d made a choice I was happy with and the limiting factor was my skill and processing.

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[tom0511]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Donzo98:

Nikon Z lens prices are SUPER CHEAPO compared to Leica prices...

Compared to Ferrari Porsche is super cheapo either

[BernardC]

10 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

here’s the Nikon Z 85/1.8, much stronger showing than the 50/1.8Z and of course the Leica Summicron 75/2 SL.   I do thoroughly enjoy using my 50 SL APO, but it stings a little to know it’s not the revolutionary glass I thought it to be.  Note: it still won’t slow me down the least bit making pictures with it.  

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/nikon-nikkor-z-85mm-f18-s

Has PC Mag now become an authority on lenses? The review says that the lens handles poorly (if you try to focus manually), and doesn't have Nikon's latest coating. It then provides a single-number performance figure, which is supposed to convey the overall resolution of the lens (at mid-distance when pointed at a resolution chart). They follow that up with the fact that the lens is softer in the corners, which means that the resolution number that they just gave isn't for the whole image (even though it confusingly claims to be a measure of resolution in the whole image).

I wouldn't concern myself too much about that review. They will love something else next week, and they will want you to purchase that too. It reminds me of the old lens test in Modern Photography and Popular Photography (two competing NY magazines that later merged), but those would provide more than one number to justify their "must buy!" verdict.

By the way, I don't mean to imply that this new Nikkor is a bad lens. No way to tell from that review (unless you favour focus feel). It sounds a lot like the F-mount 85/1.8: sharp in the center, softer toward the edges, but good value for money if you want a light short tele. Nothing wrong with that.

[ZHNL]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

Has PC Mag now become an authority on lenses? The review says that the lens handles poorly (if you try to focus manually), and doesn't have Nikon's latest coating. It then provides a single-number performance figure, which is supposed to convey the overall resolution of the lens (at mid-distance when pointed at a resolution chart). They follow that up with the fact that the lens is softer in the corners, which means that the resolution number that they just gave isn't for the whole image (even though it confusingly claims to be a measure of resolution in the whole image).

I wouldn't concern myself too much about that review. They will love something else next week, and they will want you to purchase that too. It reminds me of the old lens test in Modern Photography and Popular Photography (two competing NY magazines that later merged), but those would provide more than one number to justify their "must buy!" verdict.

By the way, I don't mean to imply that this new Nikkor is a bad lens. No way to tell from that review (unless you favour focus feel). It sounds a lot like the F-mount 85/1.8: sharp in the center, softer toward the edges, but good value for money if you want a light short tele. Nothing wrong with that.

I have 85mm f1.8S. I sold my Z7 but decide keep all f1.8S Nikkor given they are all tested copy and bought new so I can use them in the future. The reason I let Z7 go is because with SL2,(My favorite digital MILC camera to date) I don't see myself using Z7 for foreseeable future and I don't want keep it on shelf and let it depreciate crazy. 

I agree with Manual focus handling. and control ring is a joke but you can certainly disable it. Performance wise, it beats 90mmAPO  M summicron pretty much on any category: flare, sharpness, contrast, CA(yes, CA), coma, you name it. It doesn't change the factor I will keep 90APO and prefer using it most of cases than chasing moving stuff in a hurry, as it is a rangefinder and it can be used for any system and it has great manual control and it sharp enough for any application I can think of and it is smaller with lovely handle. so, I didn't lose sleep after testing them side by side. 

One thing, people forget to mention is AF of Nikon Z is very responsive and accurate especially eye AF is very handy for daily capture if AF is your preference. 

I am pretty sure it is not only Nikon, but Sigma, Sony, Canon and Panasonic are all upgrade their games and from now on, it is a normal state that you see high performance(or higher speed) glass at decent price range. I tend to agree with People that who bought Ferrari or Porsche don't care how much horse power Audi or BMW have or who bought BMW audi don't care Toyota or Honda's offer. 

If you still think one certain system can get the images others can't at year 2020 (sports and bird aside), don't be. Pick one system you enjoy using the most and forget others. If others offer more incentives, just switch to it.  

[NRKstudio]

13 hours ago, PeterGA said:

Ok I understand now...

You need to decide what is important to you and your photography - otherwise you may be forever unhappy with your choice of equipment ...how much you spend and what reviews say are temporary filters - ultimately it is all about what makes you happy making the types of images you want to make. Cameras and lenses are not investments OR guarantees - they are just 'things'.

A number of people have made it clear in this thread one way or another that they choose to use this or that - because they like using this or that - it should be that simple for you too - otherwise ( maybe) you aren't sure of what you want and why you want it.

It is your journey.

Pete

Thanks Pete, I purchased my first “real camera” when my first son was born almost 2 years ago.  Since then the photography bug turned from an interest to a hobby to now a passion.  I have also enjoyed the tech and physical side of it.  For me, I simply enjoy shooting window finders for the connection to the reality in front of me, the method, and the feel of history in the technique (m10 and xpro).  When I need AF for family events and require accuracy and consistency (while participating in the event as well), I used to pick up an A7r(x), but now an SL2. 
You are right though, our journeys are all our own.  It is clear to me that if you participate in a forum that is dedicated to discussing a particular camera or lens, you must also find the gear and tech important.  And, if you decide to spend the time (which of course is limited for all of us to shoot) on these forums instead of out shooting, what is really more important? The gear or the photos? This forum thread is not about sharing pictures or art though is it.  

 

12 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I know this will sound pollyannaish, but there is no reason for your purchase to “sting” because some web review doesn’t affirm your choice of equipment, and validate your good taste (stick with me).  You either buy your equipment because testing reviews confirm that you have the best (not just the most expensive), or you choose gear that you enjoy using and gives you good results.

For myself, I don’t have the time, patience or interest to test every option of every piece of equipment I need (or just want).  About 40 years ago, I was sitting in a café in Pokhara (Nepal) having a banana lassi.  Another backpacker came up and sat next to me and asked how much I paid for the lassi.  I said 2 rupees.  She looked at me with contempt and said, it would have been only 1 rupee if I’d bought my own banana.

I bought into Leica because I like the gestalt - the cameras appealed, as did the ethos of the company.  It still does.  I decided the focal lengths I wanted, read the reviews, made my choices on what I would like, and then largely ignored the reviews, safely in the knowledge I’d made a choice I was happy with and the limiting factor was my skill and processing.

Good way be, to move and don’t look back! 

[NRKstudio]

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1 hour ago, ZHNL said:

I have 85mm f1.8S. I sold my Z7 but decide keep all f1.8S Nikkor given they are all tested copy and bought new so I can use them in the future. The reason I let Z7 go is because with SL2,(My favorite digital MILC camera to date) I don't see myself using Z7 for foreseeable future and I don't want keep it on shelf and let it depreciate crazy. 

I agree with Manual focus handling. and control ring is a joke but you can certainly disable it. Performance wise, it beats 90mmAPO  M summicron pretty much on any category: flare, sharpness, contrast, CA(yes, CA), coma, you name it. It doesn't change the factor I will keep 90APO and prefer using it most of cases than chasing moving stuff in a hurry, as it is a rangefinder and it can be used for any system and it has great manual control and it sharp enough for any application I can think of and it is smaller with lovely handle. so, I didn't lose sleep after testing them side by side. 

One thing, people forget to mention is AF of Nikon Z is very responsive and accurate especially eye AF is very handy for daily capture if AF is your preference. 

I am pretty sure it is not only Nikon, but Sigma, Sony, Canon and Panasonic are all upgrade their games and from now on, it is a normal state that you see high performance(or higher speed) glass at decent price range. I tend to agree with People that who bought Ferrari or Porsche don't care how much horse power Audi or BMW have or who bought BMW audi don't care Toyota or Honda's offer. 

If you still think one certain system can get the images others can't at year 2020 (sports and bird aside), don't be. Pick one system you enjoy using the most and forget others. If others offer more incentives, just switch to it.  

Have you tried the Sigma 85/1.4 Art?  I need a portrait length prime for my SL2, I posted a new topic a few days ago if you have any advice.  I’ve been using my 75 Lux and old 90 Cron, but looking for a more modern look.  Thanks!

[PeterGA]

2 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

Thanks Pete, I purchased my first “real camera” when my first son was born almost 2 years ago.  Since then the photography bug turned from an interest to a hobby to now a passion.  I have also enjoyed the tech and physical side of it.  For me, I simply enjoy shooting window finders for the connection to the reality in front of me, the method, and the feel of history in the technique (m10 and xpro).  When I need AF for family events and require accuracy and consistency (while participating in the event as well), I used to pick up an A7r(x), but now an SL2. 
You are right though, our journeys are all our own.  It is clear to me that if you participate in a forum that is dedicated to discussing a particular camera or lens, you must also find the gear and tech important.  And, if you decide to spend the time (which of course is limited for all of us to shoot) on these forums instead of out shooting, what is really more important? The gear or the photos? This forum thread is not about sharing pictures or art though is it.  

 

Good way be, to move and don’t look back! 

NRK -  LUF is a gear discussion place which is easy to see - but beneath this and all around it is a lot of photography posted in many many threads and in these threads/topics you will see a range of photography from very beginner to outstanding - just look.

The posted photography is what makes this forum very interesting - as well as the truly International membership base.

One final thing - read what I have said and what @IkarusJohn has posted above  - very few people will be open about gear choice- and just say- " I use it because I like it" or "I use this stuff because it makes decision making easier" .

All the best 

Pete

 

 

[ZHNL]

2 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

Have you tried the Sigma 85/1.4 Art?  I need a portrait length prime for my SL2, I posted a new topic a few days ago if you have any advice.  I’ve been using my 75 Lux and old 90 Cron, but looking for a more modern look.  Thanks!

I had that lens for D850. I think 135mm art is stronger glass overall mainly in CA department. 85mm has noticeable CA, this actually will screw up phase detection AF so I don't have consistent focus even with latest D850,  peripheral focus points show even more problems that 135 art has none. SL2 has only contrast focus that I hope it has no issue here. (but my pre-ordered Sigma 35mm f1.2 has to go back as it consistently focus wrongly even in AFS with CDAF)

Bokeh is wonderful and sharpness is 2nd to none but to be honest, all modern glasses are sharp enough, I haven't used a single one prime that lack in this department.(but 85art do offer sharpness to extreme corner WO) To my surprise, with even 86mm front, it still show "significant" mechanical vignette (cat eye), not even better than Sony or Nikon 85mm f1.4.

It has real focus ring which offer way better manual focus feeling than FBW lens but I am not sure if it still is for L mount. Other than size, CA and inconsistent AF, I think it is one of best 85mm lens out there.  

Hope this helps. 

[Chaemono]

Sean Reid published a sick, 18-page review of the APO 35 Summicron-SL vs. the Sigma L 35/1.2 DG DN Art on three cameras, SL, SL2, and S1R.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I'm not sure what you mean by "sick."  He does have an obsession with software corrections to an image.  The SL and SL2 include in their DNG files a template for correction distortion and lateral chromatic aberration (in which different colors are distorted by different amounts).  If you look at the parameters in this template, you can see that there is no distortion and no LCA, so Adobe, quite sensibly, ignores those opcodes.  The S1R and S1 output is in a proprietary RW2 format, and even though there is no correction in the S1R's files, Adobe presents a warning notice that it has applied software corrections.  Sean strips these no-ops from all his test files, lest they reduce his accuracy in testing.

The Sigma 35/1.2 ART L lens DOES pass significant barrel distortion down to the postprocessing stage, and you can see the effect in Sean's article.

Both lenses are impressively sharp both on center and across the field right to the edges, even when wide open.  The Leica APO 35 SL outdoes the Sigma Art, consistently, on both platforms, by an extremely small margin.

[Chaemono]

I'm not a native English speaker and I thought 'sick' among Pro photographers connotes something positive. I borrowed the term from a video review of the S3 were the reviewer uses the term in 8:39 and in 14:29 to imply something amazing. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZhQjYc6h4Q

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

I'm a native English speaker, and have some experience in German, French, Italian and Hebrew, but I don't try to speak the language of anyone under 30.  My kids like to talk about something being a "sick burn."  I think that is good in a bad way.

Edited May 2, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[Chaemono]

These are extraordinary times. Nothing wrong with trying to feel that we are still under 30 from time to time. 

[Chuck Albertson]

9 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "sick."  He does have an obsession with software corrections to an image.  The SL and SL2 include in their DNG files a template for correction distortion and lateral chromatic aberration (in which different colors are distorted by different amounts).  If you look at the parameters in this template, you can see that there is no distortion and no LCA, so Adobe, quite sensibly, ignores those opcodes.  The S1R and S1 output is in a proprietary RW2 format, and even though there is no correction in the S1R's files, Adobe presents a warning notice that it has applied software corrections.  Sean strips these no-ops from all his test files, lest they reduce his accuracy in testing.

The Sigma 35/1.2 ART L lens DOES pass significant barrel distortion down to the postprocessing stage, and you can see the effect in Sean's article.

Both lenses are impressively sharp both on center and across the field right to the edges, even when wide open.  The Leica APO 35 SL outdoes the Sigma Art, consistently, on both platforms, by an extremely small margin.

I think he means "sick" like Edwin Diaz throws a "sick" fastball (100+ mph).

[hoppyman]

On 1/24/2020 at 6:02 AM, hoppyman said:

SL2 and the 35

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

As this thread has popped up again, I would like to amplify other reasons why I am so impressed with this lens and on the SL2.

This (cropped) shot was made in room primarily lit by window to right of shot. No flash. The crop shown is almost to the left edge ( not from the centre area)

f/2 handheld while standing on a ladder with outstretched arms holding the camera pointing down directly at the model. stabilisation on. Spot AF by  looking at the nearly parallel to my eye rear screen and putting the pre- positioned reticle on the models eye then adjust composition a little. The DoF of course is minimal as planned. Focus movement felt instant. For me all of that represents marvellous performance by the system.

[1400700226]

Hi everyone, I am considering this lens, but raw dng samples are incredibly hard to find on the internet, so could anyone upload some more sample raw images here? Thanks very much!!!

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 5/2/2020 at 1:10 PM, Chaemono said:

These are extraordinary times. Nothing wrong with trying to feel that we are still under 30 from time to time. 

I have two kids well under 30, and they can make it very costly if I try to invade their turf.

[cheekz4dayz]

On 2/4/2021 at 2:57 AM, 1400700226 said:

Hi everyone, I am considering this lens, but raw dng samples are incredibly hard to find on the internet, so could anyone upload some more sample raw images here? Thanks very much!!!

I'm not sure if this will work but here are raw images that I recently captured with this lens. These are from a couple nights ago having dinner with my partner. If it doesn't work let me know and maybe I can pm you the files. They're not exceptional of course but I'm thinking since they're all low light images it could help.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/OpEwH2FkQvOD877wNBIbVg.i-em4LozMFSm7jpJ7N-m1h

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[1400700226]

3 hours ago, cheekz4dayz said:

I'm not sure if this will work but here are raw images that I recently captured with this lens. These are from a couple nights ago having dinner with my partner. If it doesn't work let me know and maybe I can pm you the files. They're not exceptional of course but I'm thinking since they're all low light images it could help.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/OpEwH2FkQvOD877wNBIbVg.i-em4LozMFSm7jpJ7N-m1h

Wow, thanks so much!!! The link is working😄