Mr.Q Posted October 9, 2019 Share #21 Posted October 9, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I guess the question is how accurate and reliable is Imatest? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 9, 2019 Posted October 9, 2019 Hi Mr.Q, Take a look here Panasonic L 4/70-200. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
nicci78 Posted October 9, 2019 Share #22 Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, thighslapper said: This is a computer magazine. These guys are obsessed only with numbers. I would take it with as much a pinch of salt as you would a computer review in Vogue. I've found it on par with the 90-280 in actual usage, except in the peripheral 5% of the image at f4 where it is softer than on the 90-280. Jim Fisher is a Leica fan. Without him and his computer magazine, there will be almost no technical review about Leica lenses. Because even DPreview does not bother. What a shame. So we can praised pcmag for supporting Leica through their reviews. I will not dismiss their opinions, only because it is a “computer” magazine. Nonetheless I quite agree with his reviews, honest with sensible performance tests. It is nice that he is also reviewing L-mount lenses What I see from the very unimpressive Lumix S 24-105 is that I should not bother to use any Panasonic lenses. Even in m4/3 world, Olympus lenses are better than theirs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 9, 2019 Share #23 Posted October 9, 2019 vor einer Stunde schrieb Mr.Q: Well it's a sports camera. If detail and resolution is a priority the A7RIII or IV will provide high ISO and AF capabilities close to the A9, which is still 2 steps ahead of anything out there. I'm not sure anymore that the α9 has an AA filter because that DPR post by Jim Kasson is actually not in English. 😂 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 9, 2019 Share #24 Posted October 9, 2019 The main issue with Leica lenses is that going the extra 10% to eliminate those pesky residual aberrations and poor corner performance comes with a 50% additional weight premium. I have both the Leica 90-280 and the Lumix 70-200 and I would rather put up with the negligible performance hit to be able to carry my backpack and have enough energy left to actually take photos when I get to my location. The 2x converter gets me to 400mm ...... and with 6.5 stops of stabilisation and the added pixel count of the S1R there is no contest. Humping the big 3 SL zooms is not much fun when it comes to landscape photography in challenging terrain and weather when you are loaded with all the other stuff you need. It's either lighten the load or just take a CL and the TL zooms instead. I've come to regard the 90-280 as a bit of a while elephant ..... it's really too big and heavy and 280 doesn't get you the reach you need for sports/wildlife, plus the lack of added teleconverters is disappointing. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxo Posted October 10, 2019 Share #25 Posted October 10, 2019 vor 14 Stunden schrieb thighslapper: The main issue with Leica lenses is that going the extra 10% to eliminate those pesky residual aberrations and poor corner performance comes with a 50% additional weight premium. .... I've come to regard the 90-280 as a bit of a while elephant ..... it's really too big and heavy and 280 doesn't get you the reach you need for sports/wildlife, plus the lack of added teleconverters is disappointing. I totally agree on this, but the Panasonic lens has no good test results. If I look an the Nikon Z7: nice, lightweight, small but sturdy body plus good and lightweight lenses (well except the 35mm perhaps) I'm wondering: why couldn't Leica do this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 10, 2019 Share #26 Posted October 10, 2019 55 minutes ago, saxo said: I totally agree on this, but the Panasonic lens has no good test results. If I look an the Nikon Z7: nice, lightweight, small but sturdy body plus good and lightweight lenses (well except the 35mm perhaps) I'm wondering: why couldn't Leica do this? They CAN of course do it, for the Leica R-system there was the super heavy, wild and exclusive 35-70 f2.8 and the more modestly priced 35-70 f4. The same for 80-200 range, there was the super exclusive, wild and heavy 70-180 f2.8 or the 80-200 f4 to choose from. Both f4 lenses where made by Kyocera (with Leica specs and QC) but where complete Leica designs and performance wise they are very fine lenses! I think one problem today for Leica is that they make more money selling exotic, exclusive lenses than trying to do something for the masses. I would personally love a 70-200 f4 from Leica, a compact (fresnel) 350 f4 and a compact f4 24-70, all at around 2000-3000€ but I don't see that coming anytime soon. They have tried to do "cheap" lenses for the M-system for some years (the Summarit line), but they got a lot of negative feedback on these lenses for "not being up to Leica standards" even though the performance on these lenses are top notch and on pair with much more expensive lenses. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivar B Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share #27 Posted October 10, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 10/9/2019 at 9:02 AM, nicci78 said: this review of the lens by pcmag, is quite disappointing about lens resolution. Not ready for 47MP. https://www.pcmag.com/review/368952/panasonic-lumix-s-pro-70-200mm-f4-o-i-s I saw this test, and I am the same time pleased to note that other testers have concluded quite differently. Think about it - we are talking about Panasonic, and this lens is "certified by Leica", does anyone believe these companies would offer a product not being up to the usual standards? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkS Posted October 10, 2019 Share #28 Posted October 10, 2019 In Germany we do have 2 important foto-Magazins. One of them (colorfoto 07/2019) tested the Pana 4/70-200 OIS and it achieved 92,5 points. This is a good result, especially for a zoom lens. For example the Canon 4 / 70-200 achieved 86 points, the Nikkor 4 / 70-200 75 points, the sony 2,8/ 70-200 OSS 83 points. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 11, 2019 Share #29 Posted October 11, 2019 12 hours ago, DirkS said: In Germany we do have 2 important foto-Magazins. One of them (colorfoto 07/2019) tested the Pana 4/70-200 OIS and it achieved 92,5 points. This is a good result, especially for a zoom lens. For example the Canon 4 / 70-200 achieved 86 points, the Nikkor 4 / 70-200 75 points, the sony 2,8/ 70-200 OSS 83 points. That fits more with my personal assessment of the lens in daily use. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capnord Posted October 11, 2019 Share #30 Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) Stop reading tests, take photos. This lens is great ! 😃 ( Gale of wind on the Brittany coasts ) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 11, 2019 by Capnord 6 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/302243-panasonic-l-470-200/?do=findComment&comment=3834469'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 11, 2019 Share #31 Posted October 11, 2019 vor 35 Minuten schrieb Capnord: Stop reading tests, take photos. This lens is great ! 😃 ( Gale of wind on the Brittany coasts ) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Good point. See here for “Just the MTF Charts: 70-200mm f2.8 Zoom Lenses” on some other comparable lenses: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/07/just-the-mtf-charts-70-200mm-f2-8-zooms Hopefully, Roger Cicala will test this Lumix lens, too. We can rely on his findings. To paraphrase another forum member here, Roger cuts through the crap that others spew. 😁 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 11, 2019 Share #32 Posted October 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Chaemono said: To paraphrase another forum member here, Roger cuts through the crap that others spew. 😁 Yep, I did say something to that effect. And I’ve said many times (ad nauseam, some would say ) that the best course of action is to take your own shots... and make your own prints... to best assess gear. And that’s not even considering sample variation, which Roger routinely discusses. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted October 11, 2019 Share #33 Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) Capnord and Jeff S, I certainly agree. Way too many photographers here on this forum are caught up with MTFs and reviews instead of going out and taking photographs with excellent content. Certainly the reviews can guide a person to making better purchase choices, but it is the content of the photograph that makes a person; Stop, Look, Think and Feel something about that moment in time. IMO, feeling is the most difficult aspect to convey in a photograph. Just the same, the aforementioned qualities separate a mere photo from that of a most excellent photograph. My decades of experience and corporate and private clients repeatedly demonstrated it is the content of the photograph, that makes them decide whether or not to present their cards to purchase prints. I suggest more photographers would find more satisfaction with their cameras and lenses of whatever brand if they concentrated on creating excellent photographs; those worthy of printing and displaying on their walls or sharing with the world their vision of what they saw and captured at that moment in time. Result...they will be a whole lot happier too when both themselves and other viewers say; Wow! What an incredible and meaningful photograph! r/ Mark Edited October 11, 2019 by LeicaR10 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 12, 2019 Share #34 Posted October 12, 2019 vor 5 Stunden schrieb LeicaR10: Capnord and Jeff S, I certainly agree. Way too many photographers here on this forum are caught up with MTFs and reviews instead of going out and taking photographs with excellent content. Certainly the reviews can guide a person to making better purchase choices, but it is the content of the photograph that makes a person; Stop, Look, Think and Feel something about that moment in time. IMO, feeling is the most difficult aspect to convey in a photograph. Well stated. I don't think Roger Cicala would disagree: "...photographers want to [feel] where their tool works best and worst so they may use its strengths and avoid its weaknesses." 😂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mls1483 Posted October 14, 2019 Share #35 Posted October 14, 2019 Am 9.10.2019 um 18:20 schrieb Mr.Q: Day by day my enthusiasm for the L-mount is wearing off. I recently traded in my Fuji X-T3 for a Sony A9 which is just incredible. The AF-C speed/accuracy, high ISO capability, silent shooting with e-shutter.... it is leaps and bounds a better camera than the SL. Given that the Lumix cameras are already 2-3 years behind Sony tech, I just can't imagine how the SL2 could come close. As for lenses, the weak offerings from Panasonic and gigantic lenses from Sigma (which are available in other mounts as well) certainly doesn't help the case for the once-promising L-mount alliance. Honestly, some of the current native Sony (GM, Zeiss, Voigtlander) Nikon, and Canon lenses will give Leica lenses a run for its money. I'm still going to hold off selling my 24-90 until the SL2 is officially announced, but I'm quite content with my current kit (X1D II, Q-P and A9) so it's really going to have to knock my socks off in innovation. I just sold my Sony A7R2 (second body). The IQ I get with the S1R and the Lumix S Pro 50mm f/1.4 as well as the Summicrons SL is way above everything I got with Sony and eg the Zeiss Planar 50mm f/1.4. Even in low light, because noise of the S1R is more pleasing. The results with adapted lenses (Leica M and Zeiss Otus) are also much better Colors, tonality, rendering - almost everything is much better. Futhermore, the S1R is weather sealed and sturdy. Sony seems to be the clear winne on paper (high ISO, AF speed, ect) but in photographic practice it always disappointed me (in comparison to Leica and Panasonic). 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted October 14, 2019 Share #36 Posted October 14, 2019 Way better? Hyperbole, much? My X1D files certainly punches way above any FF offering, but honestly, all the FF cameras I've had (Canon 5Dx, Sony A7x/A9, Leica M9/M10, Leica Q2/Q-P, Leica SL) all competed on a level playing field with great lenses. That's not going to magically change with the Panasonic S1R. Nowadays there is no superiority in terms of IQ. Let's not get carried away. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted October 15, 2019 Share #37 Posted October 15, 2019 I also got this lens, even though already owning the 90-280. I think it is a very good and flexible lens, also good for travel, I like it also for images of my kids in action. The 90-280 is something I prefer for nature where the reach helps (even though not a birder lens) While it is very sharp and I like the IQ I get with it, my first impression is it doesnt give my the WOW-effect of the 90-280. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 30, 2022 Share #38 Posted March 30, 2022 On 10/11/2019 at 12:52 PM, Chaemono said: Good point. See here for “Just the MTF Charts: 70-200mm f2.8 Zoom Lenses” on some other comparable lenses: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/07/just-the-mtf-charts-70-200mm-f2-8-zooms Hopefully, Roger Cicala will test this Lumix lens, too. We can rely on his findings. To paraphrase another forum member here, Roger cuts through the crap that others spew. 😁 Roger now has something to say about its build quality, which was referenced in the OP’s initial post. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2022/03/disassembling-the-lumix-s-pro-r70-200mm-f-4-ois/ Not your average lens reviewer. Jeff 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matted Posted March 30, 2022 Share #39 Posted March 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Jeff S said: Roger now has something to say about its build quality, which was referenced in the OP’s initial post. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2022/03/disassembling-the-lumix-s-pro-r70-200mm-f-4-ois/ Not your average lens reviewer. Jeff Thanks for posting. That was a great read, I love Roger's dry humour. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 30, 2022 Share #40 Posted March 30, 2022 12 minutes ago, matted said: Thanks for posting. That was a great read, I love Roger's dry humour. Funny, smart, multi-talented… etc etc. A former physician who was very active in the medical community. A great story behind Lensrentals… https://m.dpreview.com/opinion/9654455337/introducing-roger-cicala Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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