"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[sillbeers15]

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14 minutes ago, bags27 said:

If I buy one, it'll be more the stabilization than the increased MPS, though they sort of go hand-in-hand.

The stabilisation was introduced in Q2.

Lately I’ve been going through several Q2 user reviews, came across one review that I thought has depth in YouTube in Chinese Language that reference the Q2’s IQ deviation from M10 & SL in Color rendering but reviewer commented in overall good performance of Q2.

I think the Q2 will provide the base performance expectations for the coming SL2 than S1R although the image sensor source may be common.

[Donzo98]

1 minute ago, sillbeers15 said:

The stabilisation was introduced in Q2.

Lately I’ve been going through several Q2 user reviews, came across one review that I thought has depth in YouTube in Chinese Language that reference the Q2’s IQ deviation from M10 & SL in Color rendering but reviewer commented in overall good performance of Q2.

I think the Q2 will provide the base performance expectations for the coming SL2 than S1R although the image sensor source may be common.

Q had stabilization as well. 

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[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

The stabilisation was introduced in Q2.

 

OIS, not IBIS, and as noted, same as Q.

Jeff

[nicci78]

Stabilisation is not as useful as you may think. Sometimes yes, but sadly not reliable at 100% 
 

Foolproof methods for sharp images are : fast shutter speed & sturdy tripod. 
 

So very clean high ISO can be more desirable. But very high MP count combined with IBIS can be nice in some situation. 
Sadly you won’t be able to choose in Leica world between 24 or 47 MP

[michali]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Stabilisation is not as useful as you may think. Sometimes yes, but sadly not reliable at 100% 
Foolproof methods for sharp images are : fast shutter speed & sturdy tripod. 
So very clean high ISO can be more desirable. But very high MP count combined with IBIS can be nice in some situation. 
Sadly you won’t be able to choose in Leica world between 24 or 47 MP

Fully agree with you on this. My experience in over 4 months of wildlife photography with the S1R  was that the IBIS is overrated in some instances.  And I'm not talking only about low light conditions. I found both the IBIS & especially the AF implementation extremely frustrating at times, so much so that I sold the S1R and went back to my SL.

I have read some where that when you're working with a much larger sensor, that the effect of  movement would create a more noticeable blur on the image, when viewed at pixel level. Something I suspected was maybe happening with both the Sony A7RII & S1R,  I'm not sure about this, any comments?  

Interestingly I never had these movement blur issues with my 50MP Hasselblad CFV50 digital back & 503CW, even shooting and held from a helicopter:   Iceland Aerial Shots Hasselblad & M9

IMO nothing can beat a sturdy tripod or a bean bag which is what I use for wildlife.

Back to the SL2, let's see if it will be a remodelled / rebadged S1R....or?

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by michali

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb nicci78:

So very clean high ISO can be more desirable. But very high MP count combined with IBIS can be nice in some situation. 
Sadly you won’t be able to choose in Leica world between 24 or 47 MP

Since Jono reviewed the S1, not the S1R, I’m hopeful that the 47-50 MPx SL2 will have better DR and more malleable files than the S1.  The S1 will still maintain a high ISO noise advantage, though, but let’s see how material it’ll be.  I look forward to the tests. 

vor 43 Minuten schrieb michali:

Back to the SL2, let's see if it will be a remodelled / rebadged S1R....or?

A user of this forum who’s under an NDA and whom I can’t name used the SL2 this week and said “Leica Rumors really has no clue.” 😁

[sillbeers15]

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47 minutes ago, michali said:

Back to the SL2, let's see if it will be a remodelled / rebadged S1R....or?

 

 

There are different digital cameras with common image sensors out in the market. If the SL2 appears with reasonably good AF tracking capability, good Dynamic Range and Color rendering similar to the SL, I would not consider it to be a rebadged S1R.

[thighslapper]

2 hours ago, michali said:

Fully agree with you on this. My experience in over 4 months of wildlife photography with the S1R  was that the IBIS is overrated in some instances.  And I'm not talking only about low light conditions. I found both the IBIS & especially the AF implementation extremely frustrating at times, so much so that I sold the S1R and went back to my SL.

I have read some where that when you're working with a much larger sensor, that the effect of  movement would create a more noticeable blur on the image, when viewed at pixel level. Something I suspected was maybe happening with both the Sony A7RII & S1R,  I'm not sure about this, any comments?  

 

With static subjects I've found the stated 6 stops with IBIS +/- OIS claims about right ...... but again it depends on how good you are at holding things steady in the first place. For normal casual use I rely on 1 over focal length divided by 10 (about 4 stops) as a general rule of thumb and know I'll get pin sharp images almost 100% of the time.  Of course with moving subjects it all becomes a bit complicated and unpredictable. 

With AF decoupled from the shutter and on the rear AF button, plus point focus I've had much less trouble and failures than on the SL. 

I suppose with all cameras it depends on familiarity and awareness of the various strengths and weaknesses and adapting to them. I am now 'fully adapted' to the S1R and suspect going back to the SL or SL2 might be a bit frustrating for a while ......

[Distagon]

13 hours ago, mmradman said:

I suppose achieving sale and making money Is less of an issue for Apple compared to Leica, there is never a shortage of a product when you need or want one.  Even on batteries Apple does well, if you need new one just replace the phone.

Just as Hasselblad don’t manufacture lenses, Apple doesn’t manufacture iPhones either.

They subcontract to Taiwanese assemblers.

[bags27]

Although this might encourage thread drift, this thread has already drifted in so many directions....Ming Thein has his usual eloquent things to say....here about the general state of high-end camera production.

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/10/20/at-the-risk-of-losing-your-customers/#more-18477

Edited October 23, 2019 by bags27

[grahamhoey]

8 minutes ago, bags27 said:

Although this might encourage thread drift, this thread has already drifted in so many directions....Ming Thein has his usual eloquent things to say....here about the general state of high-end camera production.

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/10/20/at-the-risk-of-losing-your-customers/#more-18477

Great article, so true. Camera designers/manufacturers could learn a lot from smartphone designers 

[Jeff S]

10 hours ago, Chaemono said:

A user of this forum who’s under an NDA and whom I can’t name used the SL2 this week and said “Leica Rumors really has no clue.” 😁

Most details in their latest article were derived from posts here by Nicci.

Jeff

[Chaemono]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

Most details in their latest article were derived from posts here by Nicci.

Jeff

Nicci doesn't have a clue either. 😁

[Jeff S]

5 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Nicci doesn't have a clue either. 😁

Well, that’s how rumor sites narrow their list of trusted sources, if they’re paying attention.  Leica Rumors, in particular, has been burned by Leica sourced (dis)information, too. It’s a jungle out there...  

Jeff

 

[Chuck Albertson]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:55 AM, nicci78 said:

@mmradman

In order to protect its shareholders, the CEO cannot give false information about its company. 

So whatever he said last summer is bound to be true : 1,200 worldwide

Dr. Kaufmann is the shareholders. I'm pretty sure he has a good idea of the headcount.

[caissa]

SL2 weight and price, so you can calculate the price per kilo. Quite cheap compared to some lenses ...

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/leica-sl2-will-be-lighter-than-ever-according-to-new-leaked-specs

[nicci78]

9 minutes ago, Chuck Albertson said:

Dr. Kaufmann is the shareholders. I'm pretty sure he has a good idea of the headcount.

Blackstone has almost half of Leica Camera AG shares. And they have their own shareholders. 
The other bigger half is hold by the Kaufmann family. Not just by Herr Doktor

So whatever you see the thing. CEO have to provide accurate figures to the public. Depending of your country. Lying about the number of employees can be liable.

[Chuck Albertson]

2 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Blackstone has almost half of Leica Camera AG shares. And they have their own shareholders. 
The other bigger half is hold by the Kaufmann family. Not just by Herr Doktor

So whatever you see the thing. CEO have to provide accurate figures to the public. Depending of your country. Lying about the number of employees can be liable.

Leica is a privately-held company (it was de-listed several years ago). Disclosure requirements for privately-held companies vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and I don't know what they are for German companies. Not that I'm suggesting the company has been issuing funny numbers - just that disclosure requirements are different for privately-held companies.

[ynp]

On 10/22/2019 at 6:43 PM, mmradman said:

Wrist watch operation must be labour intensive

Watches are outsourced 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[mmradman]

49 minutes ago, ynp said:

Watches are outsourced 

That was irony comment. 

Talking of camera and lens production, many mechanical components, EVF sub assemblies, not to mention batteries, bits of external cladding, miscellaneous parts, packaging etc are all outsourceed.  I assume individual lens are grind, polished and coated in house. Apart from that key technical activity in Wetzlar are R&D and final assembly, a lot is done in Portugal and finalised in Germany.

Btw, the Leica Portugal factory started life as a clock maker.