"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[Donzo98]

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11 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Yes, about $4000.

Jeff

Used 24-90’s are sub 3500... so yeah... 1500 for the SL... nope.

[Jeff S]

And if one looks hard enough, an effectively new 24-90 (full warranty, no real  use) can be found for near $4k. I was being generous.

Jeff

[Mr.Q]

I'm not so sure about that pricing. I recently purchased a near mint 24-90 with 1 year warranty for 2500 EUR from the Leica Shop in Vienna.  

I'd say the current value for 24-90's in mint condition are sub 3,000 USD.

[Jeff S]

That would just mean that Bud’s SL was priced closer to $3500 rather than $2500, still not near his assumed $1500 value, which was my point.  Bud should be happy in either case if he’s going to trade his SL for the SL2; it just bumps his estimated trade value.  

Jeff

[Mr.Q]

I don't disagree, he got a fair deal on that package.

[Chaemono]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb budjames:

I'm very happy shooting with my user clean used SL and 24-90 that I bought from the Leica SoHo, NYC store. The SL body cost me $1,500. 

I will consider trading in my SL for the SL2 after reading the initial reviews.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Good deal, Bud.

Just curious, any particular reviewer besides Jono whom you like? I started to appreciate Steve Huff’s review style a bit more lately.

BTW, if there is one SL prime you may be thinking about, the APO 50 Summicron-SL is worth a look.

 

[hexx]

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3 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Good deal, Bud.

Just curious, any particular reviewer besides Jono whom you like? I started to appreciate Steve Huff’s review style a bit more lately.

BTW, if there is one SL prime you may be thinking about, the APO 50 Summicron-SL is worth a look.

 

What’s there to appreciate in his style?

[LocalHero1953]

Reviews.................................when I first started buying new camera kit rather than secondhand, I relied far more on reviews than I do now. Now, because I have far clearer idea of what I am looking for (for my photography), I am more reliant initially on specs and then on practical handling (and I realise not everyone can handle before buying). That said, I trust reviewers where I have learned from their past reviews that their opinion is to be trusted - where my experience, after use, matches their conclusions. Not every reviewer does the same type of photography as me nor looks for similar features. So the long threads on this forum that do nothing but list reviews (yes, that one) are just a waste of internet space AFAIC. I trust Jono Slack's reviews (a mixture of people, events and casual carry-around in the country - and I have learned so much from looking at his wonderful composition), and Thorsten Overgaard's (mostly street, and his reviews are fairly factual even when he is dealing with aspects - like video - which aren't his forte - and I don't have his all-consuming love of bokeh); I have found Ming Thein's reviews helpful, though he has been too linked to other brands to be helpful with Leica recently. That's about it.

[Archiver]

14 minutes ago, hexx said:

What’s there to appreciate in his style?

Steve has a consistent style which is positive and down to earth. He doesn't like to speak badly of companies or products, but does talk about their shortcomings framed as personal opinions, or things not to his taste or needs. He's enthusiastic about photography and gear, and his photographic subjects are the same across multiple reviews so it is easy to see differences in how gear performs. I don't think he's spread any misinformation, and the group of guest writers for his site are similarly accurate and enthusiastic. He's not technical, he's not about resolution charts or shooting brick walls, he just enjoys cameras and photography, which appeals to a lot of people. And since he's been in the game for some years, he's built a good relationship with companies like Leica and Sony, and is able to give reasonable comparative reviews across generations of products.

[Chaemono]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb hexx:

What’s there to appreciate in his style?

What Archiver said. 

[NicholasT]

I've found Jono's reviews to be particularly helpful because while we all know what he does for Leica, his reviews come across as very balanced and they include enough quality images and situational evaluations in the field to be very helpful.

Steve Huff seems like a paradox. He clearly has a love / passion for photography and has a special affinity for Leica. The way he expresses his views at times comes across as pure "fanboy", not serious and certainly not consistent with someone who has been doing this for years (as he has). On the other hand if one can overlook those periodic comments or ways of expressing himself, he actually provides useful factual feedback. I also  believe that he is "trying" to operate from an objective point of view. 

Pure speculation on my part but part of the problem is that Steve has consistently kept this "fanboy" trait from early days and has not matured enough over time to consciously shed that part of his "schtick" which if he did would lend far more credibility to his reviews.

Furthermore with regard to his website one truly glaring error in my view is the poor screening of guest writers. I've seen postings on his site from guest writers who post photos that aside from being terrible very poorly composed images ( open to some interpretation ) are also completely out of focus (not open to interpretation ). For a professional photographer's website to provide an open platform to amateur photographers who lack very basic photographic skills and are then permitted to pontificate on their clearly ill informed views on a camera or lens does great damage to Steve's personal brand and the overall credibility of the website. 

I believe Steve Huff has the "potential" to be a good reviewer, but needs to take a hard look at his approach, his communication style and be open to growth/change both personally and in how he manages his brand and website.

[thighslapper]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Good deal, Bud.

Just curious, any particular reviewer besides Jono whom you like? I started to appreciate Steve Huff’s review style a bit more lately.

BTW, if there is one SL prime you may be thinking about, the APO 50 Summicron-SL is worth a look.

 

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Reviews.................................when I first started buying new camera kit rather than secondhand, I relied far more on reviews than I do now. Now, because I have far clearer idea of what I am looking for (for my photography), I am more reliant initially on specs and then on practical handling (and I realise not everyone can handle before buying). That said, I trust reviewers where I have learned from their past reviews that their opinion is to be trusted - where my experience, after use, matches their conclusions. Not every reviewer does the same type of photography as me nor looks for similar features. So the long threads on this forum that do nothing but list reviews (yes, that one) are just a waste of internet space AFAIC. I trust Jono Slack's reviews (a mixture of people, events and casual carry-around in the country - and I have learned so much from looking at his wonderful composition), and Thorsten Overgaard's (mostly street, and his reviews are fairly factual even when he is dealing with aspects - like video - which aren't his forte - and I don't have his all-consuming love of bokeh); I have found Ming Thein's reviews helpful, though he has been too linked to other brands to be helpful with Leica recently. That's about it.

There is only one reviewer that I consistently trust .... ME.

Buy and Try is the only (but costly) way of seeing if a camera/lens comes up to your requirements. The fact you have invested money has a very sobering effect on deciding what you can and cannot live with.

Reviewers unfortunately are biased ... either knowingly or unknowingly, and rarely resist the temptation to compare with other cameras rather than to a specific standard. The fact that AF is not as quick as Sony does not make a camera poor or inadequate for your needs. Comparing noise at iso 25000 has minimal bearing on everyday use. Most of the pontificating is horsesh*t and 'dancing on the head of pins' stuff. You could walk into a camera shop blindfold tomorrow with £3000 and ask the assistant to randomly give you any camera over £1500...... and it would do 99% of what you would require for normal photography with image quality you would find difficult to fault. 

Whether you would actually like it, is another matter completely. That's the thing the reviews can never tell you. 

I watched a video on youtube last night about the Q2 .... and they freely admitted that the Q2 had precisely zero technology that wasn't available in other cameras which were either better or much cheaper, but .... as a camera it had that intangible quality that made it very desirable and a pleasure to use.

Lets hope Leica continue with the magic touch in the SL2

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by thighslapper

[NicholasT]

15 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

 

There is only one reviewer that I consistently trust .... ME.

Buy and Try is the only (but costly) way of seeing if a camera/lens comes up to your requirements. The fact you have invested money has a very sobering effect on deciding what you can and cannot live with.

Reviewers unfortunately are biased ... either knowingly or unknowingly, and rarely resist the temptation to compare with other cameras rather than to a specific standard. The fact that AF is not as quick as Sony does not make a camera good or adequate for your needs. Comparing noise at iso 25000 has minimal bearing on everyday use. Most of the pontificating is horsesh*t and 'dancing on the head of pins' stuff. You could walk into a camera shop blindfold tomorrow with £3000 and ask the assistant to randomly give you any camera over £1500...... and it would do 99% of what you would require for normal photography with image quality you find difficult to fault. 

Whether you would actually like it, is another matter completely. That's the thing the reviews can never tell you. 

I watched a video on youtube last night about the Q2 .... and they freely admitted that the Q2 had precisely zero technology that wasn't available in other cameras which were either better or much cheaper, but .... as a camera it had that intangible quality that made it very desirable and a pleasure to use.

Lets hope Leica continue with the magic touch in the SL2

 

+1

Personally I use good review like those that Jono provides as the "starting" point for my personal evaluation.

With all the advancements in photographic equipment, how the intangibles in a camera that match up to ones personal image making requirements and shooting style are likely the most important aspect of any purchase and there's only one person who can make that determination as you suggest and that's the user themselves.

Edited September 21, 2019 by NicholasT

[budjames]

8 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Yes, about $4000.

Jeff

Yes, but in that year, I get the use of an excellent 24-90 and SL body for the used purchase price of $6,400.

I am really liking using my Noctilux 50mm f0.95 on the SL. I can actually focus it wide open quickly, something that is more difficult on my M10.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[budjames]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Good deal, Bud.

Just curious, any particular reviewer besides Jono whom you like? I started to appreciate Steve Huff’s review style a bit more lately.

BTW, if there is one SL prime you may be thinking about, the APO 50 Summicron-SL is worth a look.

 

Unlike my previous system for the past 4-1/2 years, Fuji X, I find that there is less sources for information and reviews about Leica gear. The forum is great for exchanging thoughts as is the FujiXForum.com for the Fuji brand.

Here are few of my favorite websites for interesting reviews and perspectives on Leica gear:

http://findingrange.com

https://joerivanderkloet.com

http://www.overgaard.dk/thorsten-overgaard-photography-lounge.html (all Leica, all the time)

https://www.leica-camera.blog

https://leicarumors.com

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[Chaemono]

vor 59 Minuten schrieb budjames:

Unlike my previous system for the past 4-1/2 years, Fuji X, I find that there is less sources for information and reviews about Leica gear. The forum is great for exchanging thoughts as is the FujiXForum.com for the Fuji brand.

Yes, I agree. I’ll do some 50 vs. 75 Summicron-SL comparisons today where I’ll try to frame the pictures similarly. Just for overall look and rendering. I will likely post them in a separate thread. 

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, NicholasT said:

I've found Jono's reviews to be particularly helpful because while we all know what he does for Leica, his reviews come across as very balanced and they include enough quality images and situational evaluations in the field to be very helpful.

Steve Huff seems like a paradox. He clearly has a love / passion for photography and has a special affinity for Leica. The way he expresses his views at times comes across as pure "fanboy", not serious and certainly not consistent with someone who has been doing this for years (as he has). On the other hand if one can overlook those periodic comments or ways of expressing himself, he actually provides useful factual feedback. I also  believe that he is "trying" to operate from an objective point of view. 

Pure speculation on my part but part of the problem is that Steve has consistently kept this "fanboy" trait from early days and has not matured enough over time to consciously shed that part of his "schtick" which if he did would lend far more credibility to his reviews.

Furthermore with regard to his website one truly glaring error in my view is the poor screening of guest writers. I've seen postings on his site from guest writers who post photos that aside from being terrible very poorly composed images ( open to some interpretation ) are also completely out of focus (not open to interpretation ). For a professional photographer's website to provide an open platform to amateur photographers who lack very basic photographic skills and are then permitted to pontificate on their clearly ill informed views on a camera or lens does great damage to Steve's personal brand and the overall credibility of the website. 

I believe Steve Huff has the "potential" to be a good reviewer, but needs to take a hard look at his approach, his communication style and be open to growth/change both personally and in how he manages his brand and website.

I think Steve has had a darn good look at his approach and communication. He does not write for the Leica Clan of which we are part, but for a more general photographic crowd. Even if we don't like it, this is the age of social media, influencers and nonsense-twittering politicians. His "personal touch" gains him a wider audience.

[NicholasT]

7 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I think Steve has had a darn good look at his approach and communication. He does not write for the Leica Clan of which we are part, but for a more general photographic crowd. Even if we don't like it, this is the age of social media, influencers and nonsense-twittering politicians. His "personal touch" gains him a wider audience.

Good point. Hadn't thought of it in that context.

I abhor pandering to social media, but I can see that someone who is trying to appeal to a wider audience may find this approach a necessary practical compromise. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by NicholasT

[Tailwagger]

3 hours ago, Archiver said:

Steve has a consistent style which is positive and down to earth...

Movie, wine, automobiles, beds... cameras.  Reviewers these days are mostly free lancers, paid by the click. If you're not going to try before you buy, IMO, its best to find someone whose sensibilities, as best you can tell, align with your own.  The problem with Huff, IMO, is that he rarely produces a compelling photograph in his reviews.  Too much of his pictorial evidence is a backyard wall, graffiti, an uninteresting street corner.  90-95% snapshots.  It's hard to match the enthusiasm level of the words to any of the visual evidence. ie. I hear the words, but I rarely see that the equipment he raves about has resulted in any new found inspiration.  

Jono, OTOH, in his camera and lens reviews, has produced any number of images that I wish I had taken. One gets the sense of connection he has with the gear on test, and most importantly, what, in ones own hands, one might be able to achieve with it.  And while his criticisms of Leica might be tempered a bit, that's true for any reviewer, including Huff,  whose dependent on a manufacturer invites and advance gear for test. Burn them and you're off the list for the next release.

Ming Thein once said that there's nothing wrong with GAS, if it helps inspire the owner to go out and shoot more. I'm consider adding a L-A system to my Ms not because I believe the performance gains will justify the cost, but rather because after half a decade of shooting with the Ms, I'm looking toward the SL2, AF, modern glass, etc,  to help inspire alternate styles of imaging making. Whenever I contemplate changing or adding systems, it's really that aspect that I'm in search of, what new vistas might I glimpse if I had the gear under test in my own hands. So while I do find some value in his posts, I just don't find Steve's writing and images move me much one way or the other.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Tailwagger

[hillavoider]

All reviews are compromised unfortunately 

i definitely don’t trust any you tuber that’s a business in itself 

forums like this are the best 

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