CL. For Family Photography with Kids?

[bags27]

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38 minutes ago, Merv-O said:

the 55-135mm zoom (which struggles with auto-focus)--thus I manually focus at all times, relegating the auto-focus lenses to the TL I take on bike rides.

+1 on the auto-focus: I end up using manual focus a lot with it.

I hesitate to buy the 11-23, because, if I like it enough, I won't be able to justify keeping my Q.

[Ko.Fe.]

On 3/28/2019 at 10:04 PM, justbananas said:

Hi all, I've been researching new cameras, and have narrowed my choices to a handful.

On my "want" list, the CL is at the top, but I have some usability concerns for my specific shooting style.

The vast majority of the photos I take are family photos and a great number of them include many photos of my toddler.  Toddlers move quick and don't stay where you ask them to 🤣.  So to me, autofocus and ease of use in autofocus is very valuable.  A lot of my photos are fairly close, sometimes framing only busy hands or her feet in mom's shoes, stuff like this.

I currently use a Canon DSLR of years past, and I find that 90% of the time I use single point focus, I move it sometimes, or do my best to half press / recompose. With the later, I generally find that by the time I've recomposed, even quickly, my child has moved.  Both of these methods are, as you could imagine, less than awesome to deal with.  And I almost always stay in shutter priority.  Most of my photos are indoors, and in sometimes dimly lit interiors.  I find it easiest to just open the lens, get to a suitable shutter speed, and let ISO adjust as needed in auto in a predetermined range.

I also want my new camera to be travel friendly.  Meaning size and bulk are not such that you don't want to take it out of the house for say a trip to the zoo.

I rented a Fuji Xt-3, and it was a love/hate.  Too many buttons, too many menus, the camera got in my way.  Also, I found the raw images to be difficult in my usual post process. I did find the face tracking auto focus to be pretty amazing (except when it locked onto the wrong person)

I capture on average, 300 photos per day.

So, for any CL owners... would you use this camera to catch shots of your 2 year old?  Or would you think that maybe this isn't the camera for that sort of shooting.  I've also got a Q2 on my list, but I just don't know that I only want that focal length.

CL is cute, Leica made camera it is nice to have for sure. And so is Q2. All Leica made cameras are nice to have.

But do you like to change, charge batteries everyday? With 300 per day and CL (rated for 220 shots per battery charge) this is what you might need to get used to.

As for focusing, I was using single AF and it was a struggle. One day I switched to all AF, P mode, medium size RAW and never looked back. It works for family pictures. With Canon EOS cameras. :).

If you have Canon lenses, why not switch to R or RP?

 

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[justbananas]

3 hours ago, Merv-O said:

I use my CL almost exclusively with my M-T adapter and my M-mount glass. The Focus Peaking on the CL is fast and sharp...In fact, I prefer it to the M240's RF. Of course, a 50mm on the APS-c sensor isn't the same, but the results are tangible. 

Recently, I wanted to take the CL out and experiment. with the new cheap-o 7Artisans 35mm f/2 ($390) and wow, the 24mp sensor on the CL came through big time. It is a versatile little machine (my summicron 35mm stays at home now to be used with the M-Series)). However, I own 3 other Leica's and 5 Pentax bodies and I rotate them for different needs. If I don't shoot with the CL after awhile, I have to reference the manual as the cameras ergonomics are not as intuitive as I would prefer, but I presume if I used it more, I would be more in step with it. 

The one knock I have on the Cl is that it is not weather resistant and should have shake reduction technology in the body. These are essential for a modern smaller camera in this class. In order to create balance with the adapter and m-mount lenses, I bought a Liu half-case with a metal base and a thumb grip. This helps with the other lenses. I like the 11-23mm zoom. It is better than the 18-56mm (kit lens) or the 55-135mm zoom (which struggles with auto-focus)--thus I manually focus at all times, relegating the auto-focus lenses to the TL I take on bike rides.

As a primary camera, the CL is small, well-built and has a nice combination of Panasonic Technology with Leica's teutonic finish, but it can't be used in harsh elements like my flagship Pentax (K-3ii) and it's battery power is below average (the EVF uses a lot of power).  

In any event, good luck in your choice.

 

I agree.. the lack of weather sealing certainly is a disappointment, especially if you consider the camera to be a long term part of one's family. 

While I can afford the camera, I still consider this a significantly commanding price and commitment, so therefore, it needs to be a workhorse for many years.

I certainly chew through batteries.  One thing about the CL with handgrip is I hear you must remove the hand grip to change batteries.  This seems worse.

Edited March 30, 2019 by justbananas

[justbananas]

2 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

CL is cute, Leica made camera it is nice to have for sure. And so is Q2. All Leica made cameras are nice to have.

But do you like to change, charge batteries everyday? With 300 per day and CL (rated for 220 shots per battery charge) this is what you might need to get used to.

As for focusing, I was using single AF and it was a struggle. One day I switched to all AF, P mode, medium size RAW and never looked back. It works for family pictures. With Canon EOS cameras. :).

If you have Canon lenses, why not switch to R or RP?

 

I don't really have any quality canon lens that would translate well to the R.  Further, I'm seeking small.  Full frame lenses are the opposite of the direction I want to head in my next camera.  

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, Merv-O said:

I use my CL almost exclusively with my M-T adapter and my M-mount glass. The Focus Peaking on the CL is fast and sharp...In fact, I prefer it to the M240's RF. Of course, a 50mm on the APS-c sensor isn't the same, but the results are tangible. 

Recently, I wanted to take the CL out and experiment. with the new cheap-o 7Artisans 35mm f/2 ($390) and wow, the 24mp sensor on the CL came through big time. It is a versatile little machine (my summicron 35mm stays at home now to be used with the M-Series)). However, I own 3 other Leica's and 5 Pentax bodies and I rotate them for different needs. If I don't shoot with the CL after awhile, I have to reference the manual as the cameras ergonomics are not as intuitive as I would prefer, but I presume if I used it more, I would be more in step with it. 

The one knock I have on the Cl is that it is not weather resistant and should have shake reduction technology in the body. These are essential for a modern smaller camera in this class. In order to create balance with the adapter and m-mount lenses, I bought a Liu half-case with a metal base and a thumb grip. This helps with the other lenses. I like the 11-23mm zoom. It is better than the 18-56mm (kit lens) or the 55-135mm zoom (which struggles with auto-focus)--thus I manually focus at all times, relegating the auto-focus lenses to the TL I take on bike rides.

As a primary camera, the CL is small, well-built and has a nice combination of Panasonic Technology with Leica's teutonic finish, but it can't be used in harsh elements like my flagship Pentax (K-3ii) and it's battery power is below average (the EVF uses a lot of power).  

In any event, good luck in your choice.

 

If your 55-135 struggles with AF there is definitely something wrong with the lens.  Mine works well in all focus modes. Of course, with a longer lens if you use single point the user may struggle with AF due to the narrow DOF. 

[Merv-O]

5 hours ago, bags27 said:

+1 on the auto-focus: I end up using manual focus a lot with it.

I hesitate to buy the 11-23, because, if I like it enough, I won't be able to justify keeping my Q.

The 11-23mm is just fantastic...because in APS-c mode it translates to 17.5 to 35.5 (approx.). As you know, most "Leicans" like the 35mm focal point and it is a true walkabout lens. The problem is on he CL, it creates a top heavy feel. When I put it on my TL, I use the Live Screen (no EVF) and snap at eye level. the weight actually balances the TL and snaps some great photos. 

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The 11-23 is a fantastic lens with quick AF. 

Also. to Justbananas, with the grip the CL is still small and is a 1-hand wonder.

You will definitely want a 2nd battery for a full day outing, but that’s a small price to pay and small thing to carry.

[justbananas]

8 minutes ago, DGP said:

The 11-23 is a fantastic lens with quick AF. 

Also. to Justbananas, with the grip the CL is still small and is a 1-hand wonder.

You will definitely want a 2nd battery for a full day outing, but that’s a small price to pay and small thing to carry.

I agree, carrying a few small batteries is no effort, especially compared to the sheer amount of things required for a day outing with a toddler

[globalwander]

On 3/29/2019 at 3:04 AM, justbananas said:

Hi all, I've been researching new cameras, and have narrowed my choices to a handful.

On my "want" list, the CL is at the top, but I have some usability concerns for my specific shooting style.

The vast majority of the photos I take are family photos and a great number of them include many photos of my toddler.  Toddlers move quick and don't stay where you ask them to 🤣.  So to me, autofocus and ease of use in autofocus is very valuable.  A lot of my photos are fairly close, sometimes framing only busy hands or her feet in mom's shoes, stuff like this.

I currently use a Canon DSLR of years past, and I find that 90% of the time I use single point focus, I move it sometimes, or do my best to half press / recompose. With the later, I generally find that by the time I've recomposed, even quickly, my child has moved.  Both of these methods are, as you could imagine, less than awesome to deal with.  And I almost always stay in shutter priority.  Most of my photos are indoors, and in sometimes dimly lit interiors.  I find it easiest to just open the lens, get to a suitable shutter speed, and let ISO adjust as needed in auto in a predetermined range.

I also want my new camera to be travel friendly.  Meaning size and bulk are not such that you don't want to take it out of the house for say a trip to the zoo.

I rented a Fuji Xt-3, and it was a love/hate.  Too many buttons, too many menus, the camera got in my way.  Also, I found the raw images to be difficult in my usual post process. I did find the face tracking auto focus to be pretty amazing (except when it locked onto the wrong person)

I capture on average, 300 photos per day.

So, for any CL owners... would you use this camera to catch shots of your 2 year old?  Or would you think that maybe this isn't the camera for that sort of shooting.  I've also got a Q2 on my list, but I just don't know that I only want that focal length.

Hi justbabanas, 

I have the same use case as you. I have a two year old and a four year old. Most of my photography ends up indoors.

I shoot with a Q and a CL with 23, 35 and 60 lenses. The zoom is completely useless indoors. Indoors I shoot the Q and the 23 f2 and 35  f1.4 on the CL.

In my experience, the Q is noticeably faster at facial recognition and focus acquisition. Focus tracking on the Q is fast enough to take successive photos while the kids are on swings  

Maybe I have a defective CL but the tracking is completely useless. Can’t even track a slow moving object. 

So yes, both the Q/Q2 and the CL are fast enough for toddlers. 

For specialized applications, such as tracking sports I use my Sony a7RII. But I’m slowly selling the Sony gear in the hopes of picking up an SL.

Good luck and I hope that was helpful. 

[jaapv]

With tracking set to AFC but I dislike it in general. For kids face recognition is better. Although I would pull out my M9 and go RF. Then I can see what is coming. 

[justbananas]

all of this talk naturally makes me curious about the TL2 as well. 🤔

[LocalHero1953]

The great advantage of the TL2, for photographing children, is that you don't put it in front of your face.
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Edited March 31, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[justbananas]

Just now, LocalHero1953 said:

The great advantage of the TL2, for photographing children, is that you don't put it in front of your face.

 

I'm guessing you mean because of the lack of the EVF?  

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, justbananas said:

I'm guessing you mean because of the lack of the EVF?  

Yes. I have the CL for the EVF, the TL2 for this sort of shot, taken with 'touch to release'

[justbananas]

12 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Yes. I have the CL for the EVF, the TL2 for this sort of shot, taken with 'touch to release'

Sometimes I use touch to shoot on my Canon.  With specific regard to the canon, it's slow.  This has to do specifically with the mirror going down and then being held back up again.. a sluggish Ker-chunk-click-chunk-ish routine.  Of course, I'm sure this is not the case for the TL2.

I happen to be a lover of EVF's, I can't give a reason why.  But no matter, then TL2 can be had with a snap on EVF.  It certainly does seem like a cool camera.  Doesn't the TL2 and the CL share the same sensor? Aren't they essentially the same camera, different form factor?

Edited March 31, 2019 by justbananas

[LocalHero1953]

I don't know how much the CL and TL2 have in common - probably a variant of the sensor. But beyond that, they do perform slightly differently. The CL's AF is snappier, the CL's EVF is much better than the add-on EVF for the TL2 (I have the add-on EVF, but I don't use it), and overall the CL is more responsive (e.g. I can take a photo the moment it switches on or wakes up, which the M240, M10, TL2 or SL can't do). In some ways the TL2 is definitely inferior to the CL, but I just love the TL2's interface and form factor. My head traded in the TL2 for the CL at launch, my heart bought the TL2 as a 'back up' (i.e. an excuse to buy it again) last autumn.

Edited March 31, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[justbananas]

1 minute ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I don't know how much the CL and TL2 have in common - probably a variant of the sensor. But beyond that, they do perform slightly differently. The CL's AF is snappier, the CL's EVF is much better than the add-on EVF for the TL2 (I have the add-on EVF, but I don't use it), and overall the CL is more responsive (e.g. I can take a photo the moment it switches on or wakes up, which the M240, M10, TL2 or SL can't do). In some ways the TL2 is definitely inferior to the CL, but I just love the TL2's interface and form factor. My head traded in the TL2 for the CL at launch, my heart bought the TL2 as a 'back up' (i.e. an excuse to buy it again) last autumn.

haha, understood.  The TL2 is a strikingly good looking camera, there's no doubt about that.  If I had the budget for 2...

[ramarren]

On 3/30/2019 at 8:36 AM, Ko.Fe. said:

...

But do you like to change, charge batteries everyday? With 300 per day and CL (rated for 220 shots per battery charge) this is what you might need to get used to.

...

I typically get upwards of 500 exposures per charge with my CL, and only very rarely make more than 50 exposures a day. So I don't need to get used to ""change, charge batteries everyday" at all.                                                            

Edited April 1, 2019 by ramarren

[Guest]

The grip gives you the flexibility to use the CL and shoot one-handed using the rear LCD just as you would do on a TL2 (albeit on a slightly smaller screen).  

You may change the battery only once on a all-day vacation outing and it only adds 30’seconds to remove, and another 30 to reinstall, which isn’t that much of an inconvenience (or you can leave it home sometimes).

For me (and as a T owner), having this one-handed ability with the grip to use in combination with the rear LCD and AF (and easily accessible top function wheels) especially with fast moving kids is a big plus.(I bought mine used.)  

I hope this is helpful.  

Edited April 1, 2019 by Guest

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[justbananas]

I do a lot of one hand shooting. Especially with the camera hung from my fingertips vertical and low. I’m unsure how much the cl grip gives for doing this. 

 

I have no issue with a used unit and have been considering that myself if this test week goes well

Edited April 1, 2019 by justbananas