Rumored SF60 with SFC1 Commander

[Ken Abrahams]

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Thanks Sillbeers, from what you are saying the commander unit used with the SF60 will negate my other flash connected by compatible cable. That the camera will only work with via commoner.

[sillbeers15]

There is still another way for you to activate your SF64 (as off camera flash) when the SF C1 is sitting in your camera hotshoe. Turn on ‘A’ on your flash and set it to ‘slave’ mode.

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

Thanks Sillbeers, from what you are saying the commander unit used with the SF60 will negate my other flash connected by compatible cable. That the camera will only work with via commoner.

 

The problem is you can't attach a cable AND the flash/cable to the hot shoe at the same time. the commander goes into the hot shoe. And *IF* you have a Nikon type cable with a pass through shoe (ie: a flash hot shoe at both ends of the cable) the SL can't work out what to do.

 

You can use the cable you have *OR* the commander unit. As instructed above you can use the slave mode on the SF64 but there will be no TTL or HSS from the SF64 when used that way.

 

Only one device can be connected to the SL hot shoe at a time.

 

Gordon

[Ken Abrahams]

Thank you Gordon and Sillbeers, I was having a senior moment perhaps, and now realise that the hot shoe can only take one at a time. Using the slave setting on the SF 64 is a great plan albeit not TTL/HSS but still workable.

 

Many thanks

[FMB]

I beg you pardon for insisting about: If I have my SL ON shooting with my flash SF 60,  using a channel X of SF C1, couldn't I use the channel Z of the same SF C1 to send orders to a receiver "Nikon" with my SF 64 on it?

 

May be my SF 64 couldn't receive all the orders that a Nikon flash would receive but "may be YES" some interesting orders  that my SF 64 would understand. May be I'm sluggish above something technically impossible.

 

Francisco.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

No. That won't work. Leica and Nikon pins might be in the same spot but the protocols are completely different. No useful information for a SF 64 will come through a Nikon receiver.

 

Gordon

[lx1713]

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I'm sold on the statement that 'Photography is painting with light'. And I figured out that 90% of the time the ambient light is not 100% in our favour.

Therefore I started venturing into the path of 'creating light' eventhough I'm an amerturer who does not have clients to please but just myself.

 

while I've preordered two units of SF60 & a SFC1 as a starter kit, I'm also still searching for other lighting solution. I was so amazed by those little Lume cube LEDs which turn out a 55kW each and are waterproof (yes, can submerge in water as it illuminates) and gets remotely controlled by mobile phone. I have two unts ordered and await arrival. The only challenge I have not is how can I effective soften those hard lights. That will be my new toy to figure out.

Anyone here in the forum has prior experience to using Lume Cube LEDs on still photography?

 

 

I decided against them because controlling them was a little slow but they are very attractive overall as additional background lights if I have extra hands.

Chose the Luxli Viola instead. The viola is not as powerful but faster and more flexible as I could vary colour and power very quickly. I'm using them for stills and video. I like them as I could match the mood of the surroundings very quickly without having to gel them.

[sillbeers15]

I decided against them because controlling them was a little slow but they are very attractive overall as additional background lights if I have extra hands.

Chose the Luxli Viola instead. The viola is not as powerful but faster and more flexible as I could vary colour and power very quickly. I'm using them for stills and video. I like them as I could match the mood of the surroundings very quickly without having to gel them.

Thanks for sharing. I’ll go check them out.

What attracted me to Lume Cube is the waterproof feature. My imagination went wild upon that information. Perhaps I can light up part of shallow waters in landscape photography.......

[profus]

Just placed my preorder with Leica Store SG for one unit of SFC1 & two units of SF60. When it arrives, I’ll test the compatibility with i60a, if it works, I will add another three i60as or i700 flashes.

 

Yes please, be kind to inform us about the compatibility with i60a. I would like to use HSS off camera, but I am not crazy about buying the new SF60, if SFC1 and Nissin i60a could give me

the same feature

[profus]

Just checked out a bit about Nissin products.

 

So this SF60 seems to be rebranded i60a, I was aware of that. But SFC1 commander is apparently also nothing but a Nissin product with tweaked software - Air10s, please
take a look here - http://www.nissindigital.com/Air10s.html

 

Yes it is Leica, but it is really annoying they ask us to pay twice as much for Nissin products with Leica name.

 

It would be nice if someone could tweak the firmware for Air10s & i60a so it would work with SL.

 

PS. Otherwise - if one would really need to use SFC1 in order to obtain HSS, what version of i60A would be needed? Nikon one or it doesn't really matter?

[lx1713]

Thanks for sharing. I’ll go check them out.

What attracted me to Lume Cube is the waterproof feature. My imagination went wild upon that information. Perhaps I can light up part of shallow waters in landscape photography.......

 

 

Yes, the waterproofing is definitely a plus. Theres a lot you can do with it in that really small package.

[sillbeers15]

Just checked out a bit about Nissin products.

 

So this SF60 seems to be rebranded i60a, I was aware of that. But SFC1 commander is apparently also nothing but a Nissin product with tweaked software - Air10s, please

take a look here - http://www.nissindigital.com/Air10s.html

 

Yes it is Leica, but it is really annoying they ask us to pay twice as much for Nissin products with Leica name.

 

It would be nice if someone could tweak the firmware for Air10s & i60a so it would work with SL.

 

PS. Otherwise - if one would really need to use SFC1 in order to obtain HSS, what version of i60A would be needed? Nikon one or it doesn't really matter?

My initial thoughts were just as you that the SF60 and SFC1 is nothing but a rebadged Nissin I60a & Air10s respectively. Upon more careful comparison, I’ve found that the common round dial between the trigger and flash differs a little between the Leica version and Nissin. On the Nissin version, there is a HSS on/off function switch at the 9 o’clock position of the dials while there is no HSS setting on the Leica version (auto setting to HSS I assume when camera shutter is dialed above the default slow sync speed) and it is replaced by a ‘lock’ function.

So certainly the software for the Leica version differs from the Nissin version to suit Leica camera protocol. I’m not certain if there are differences in circuit board design.

I also stumbled upon test reports of SF C1 passing radiation test required by local governments stamped with March 2018 date. It means Leica needs to obtain type approval to sell these SF C1 in counties/ markets specifically for SFC1 even though Nissin has gotten the same tests done. As the SFC1 only serves Leica users, the quantity must be small. Therefore these development and fixed cost must be admonished higher per unit of SF 60 and SFC1 since the expected sales number are small. Plus Nissin must have imposed a MOQ ( minimum order quantity) as most manufacturers would do to agree to sell products as private labels to Leica. With all these considerations, the double in cost we pay over standard Nissin products seem reasonable.

Edited June 14, 2018 by sillbeers15

[profus]

My initial thoughts were just as you that the SF60 and SFC1 is nothing but a rebadged Nissin I60a & Air10s respectively. Upon more careful comparison, I’ve found that the common round dial between the trigger and flash differs a little between the Leica version and Nissin. On the Nissin version, there is a HSS on/off function switch at the 9 o’clock position of the dials while there is no HSS setting on the Leica version (auto setting to HSS I assume when camera shutter is dialed above the default slow sync speed) and it is replaced by a ‘lock’ function.

So certainly the software for the Leica version differs from the Nissin version to suit Leica camera protocol. I’m not certain if there are differences in circuit board design.

I also stumbled upon test reports of SF C1 passing radiation test required by local governments stamped with March 2018 date. It means Leica needs to obtain type approval to sell these SF C1 in counties/ markets specifically for SFC1 even though Nissin has gotten the same tests done. As the SFC1 only serves Leica users, the quantity must be small. Therefore these development and fixed cost must be admonished higher per unit of SF 60 and SFC1 since the expected sales number are small. Plus Nissin must have imposed a MOQ ( minimum order quantity) as most manufacturers would do to agree to sell products as private labels to Leica. With all these considerations, the double in cost we pay over standard Nissin products seem reasonable.

 

You might be right, if you do the whole calculation that way...But than again - why do Leica bother to do this after all? I mean if they are not able to produce an own speedlight/controller and therefore need to use Nissin's (modified) models, wouldn't it be much easier and cheaper for everyone just to pass protocol info to Nissin and ask them to make a Leica compatible model in addition to Nikon, Canon and other versions they already produce?

 

When they chose not to do that, I am inclined to believe that they earn too much with their "twice as much" prices anyway...

[sillbeers15]

I'm not sure it is Leica that do not share it's TTL protocol openly for 3rd party wireless triggers makers to produce wireless triggers for Leica digital cameras or is the overall volume of Leica cameras and users too few to attract viable development from independent suppliers to produce OCF triggers for Leica users.

Imagine Nissin produce a version of I60a & Air10s for Leica, I'm certain they cannot price it as high as Leica products. The Nissin i60a for Sony is priced higher than the Canon and Nikon versions although they look and function identically as all. I suppose it is because of the overall lower volume of Sony cameras out there in the market comparing to Canon and Nikons.

If one considers the price of Profoto A1, the SF60 does look like a bargin although it is less powerful. If you want to create the round light feature of the Profoto A1, I believe the Magmod Sphere should be a ble to create a similar soft light comparing both on the round sphere sizes.

Edited June 14, 2018 by sillbeers15

[lx1713]

I can imagine that Leica can easily build their own flash in their own inimitable way. Its just that the production volume is likely to be too low to be profitable and is a waste of their time.

 

Unless flash is a game changer for the SL it will remain that way. It's a little sad because there are problems they can solve better if their flash can do stuff that other brands cannot and if their flash is built to the same level of robustness as the SL.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Leica sell Leica branded flashes because Leica want to make money.

 

Leica outsources production because they can't make them in house.

 

Leica charges more than the "original" because of the above and because they can.

 

Could be worse. It could be another Metz. Leica could have removed i60a compatibility. Leica could have released another limited edition instead of a wireless flash.

 

Gordon

[sillbeers15]

Sounds like the letter I wrote to Leica in Q3/4 2017 asking them to offer us a Wireless Flash Triggering Solution.

The reply I'hd received from Leica is ' Please be patient, a wireless flash trigger are in the works and will be made available in 2018.'

[Vieri]

The SF60 and SF C1 are, IMHO, great developments for flash users. opening TTL and HSS with multiple remote speed light group control, which should bring Leica flash up there with Nikon's Speedlight system (I am not familiar with Canon's and Sony's, but I assume they are by now up there with Nikon's Speedlight - ?).

 

IMHO, the best solution would still be talk to Profoto or Elinchrom and work with them to have Leica-compatible HS and TTL remote controls, even if priced higher than same controls for Nikon / Canon / Sony. Elinchrom already has a HS (HIghSync) version for Olympus / Panasonic, which I am pretty sure sells in much lower volumes than Canikon, so they should be able to make a Leica version as well if they wanted to.

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

[lx1713]

Leica could have released another limited edition instead of a wireless flash.

 

 

 

Thanks. It may seem to be a frivolous statement with regards to a pro camera but quite a few of my friends found it hard to believe that Leica will stay the course and deliver a thoroughly usable ecosystem. A limited edition seems to them more likely for Leica to do than fleshing out the system.

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[sillbeers15]

My wish is to be able to use Profoto A1 and the Profoto wireless trigger when a Leica version becomes available (if ever) to fully tap the TTL & HSS function as I recognise it to be a more powerful light source to more reliabilily over power the ambient light when desired. However I'm not too hopeful as over the years not one independent strobe supplier provided dedicated support to Leica users other than Prolite (offers studio lights that support Leica HSS manually). Until available one day, now it can only remain to be a wish.

 

At the meantime, SF60 and SFC1 is good enough on what I am looking for my application to modify the outdoor ambient light for my application according to my desire to create the image I intend to create.