Rumored SF60 with SFC1 Commander

[sillbeers15]

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Gotten my SF60s & SF C1 yesterday. Worked well as Off Camera Flash. 

Walked right out of Leica Store with the SF60 mounted on a boom stick with Mag Sphere modifier held on my left hand and camera on my right into Fullerton Concours D' Elegance to try out,......cannot wait to try the SF C1 on Nissin MG10 to see if it works next.

 

L1000515 by sillbeers15

[sillbeers15]

I was not successful in locating the Nissin MG10 in Singapore this afternoon among the various local stores.

However I tried out on a i60A, has similar encounter as Gordon. I successfully paired my SF C1 to the i60A. On triggering the SF C1's flash button it triggered the i60A but I could not trigger the i60A from my SL's shutter release button. The store which offered me to try out the i60A said they had the item in the store for several months. I suspect it is a Nissin firmware update issue.

 

Btw, more test shot below on my wife. Two SF60s fired off camera.

 

L1060685 Heresa by sillbeers15

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[wlaidlaw]

I hope the Nissin software updates are not like the SF58D software updates - vapourware. I don't know if the SF58 Mk.1 updates all got mixed up with Metz going into administration but we were promised that the update to Mk.2 was just software which never arrived - auto HSS feature plus improvements to the horrible user interface. 

 

Wilson

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Nissin has offered updates in the past. However the units need to go back to them. It's not user upgradable.

 

Personally I'm not that fussed. I have two SF60's. Even if it's available I may not bother. If I needed more than two heads I'd be using the superior Godox or Elinchrom sets I have and be in manual anyway. Two SF60's should be more than enough for a bit of HSS fill flash. I'm more interested in seeing if my i60's work with the Air10S which is a better controller than the X1 I have now.

 

I'm happy enough to move on my two SF58's and my (new in box, after warranty replacement) SF64. I'll keep my SF40 for the CL though. Better size. Makes a good backup.

 

Gordon

[sillbeers15]

It was clearly mentioned in the SF C1 Quick Guide (from both the printed booklet that came with the unit & Leica website) clearly mentioned the compatible of SF C1 with Nissin NAS flash system. In reading several website announcements on Nissin MG10 there was mention (presumably by Nissin press release article) ‘Teamed with a Nissin Air10s radio commander mounted on the camera hotshoe, the MG10 provide on and off camera. Remote Manual, TTL and HSS, in an open cross platform environment, for Canon, Nikon, Fuji, M4/3, and now even Leica camera systems.’ really means Leica digital camera and not the M4/3s.

I therefore still have hope that the newly released Nissin MG10 will likely be compatible with SF C1 and Leica digital cameras. The MG10 option (165w / GN80) would also provide us a more effective flash to overpower the sun for HSS applications comparing to the SF60s at the same cost.

[Keith_W]

sillbeers15, can you please explain how you metered that shot with your wife? The background looks underexposed to me. Was your camera in A mode? What mode was your flash in? 

[sillbeers15]

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sillbeers15, can you please explain how you metered that shot with your wife? The background looks underexposed to me. Was your camera in A mode? What mode was your flash in?

Keith,

In producing a portrait shot, photographer at times choose to produce a blurred and underexposed background to draw viewer’s attention to the subject. That was my intention to create such an image.

Artificial light is used to enhance image clarity through improved contrast.

In creating such an image, two exposure needs to be handled separately. Ambient light (background) & Artificial light (subject).

First thing is to set background exposure. I chose to set camera to M mode. I set it typically 2 stops below exposure.

Next is to determine the artificial light level. I choose manual light set up. You can decide to use TTL or use TTL and switch over to manual to finely adjust. I choose to drop the second flash to 2/3 level of my main flash to create more dimensional lighting effect (slightly). No light meters used. If not satasified with results, just adjust lighting and retake.

[FMB]

As an amateur not worried till now by studio Photography, I've never thought that someday I'll be interested on triggers, receivers and softboxes and beauty dishes. But now that I'm getting old, very old, all this phantasy begins to catch my attention, because playing photography at home it's very attractive.

 

This tedious prologue has to do with the fact that I've several Leica flashes (SF 24D, SF 58, SF 40 and Metz 45-CT4) and I've bought a new SF 60+SF C1 in order to be able to use my Leica SL with several flashes OFF CAMERA meanwhile my hypothetic model does her work.

 

You can imagine my problem: How to manage all these lights synchronized? The SF C1 only speaks for the moment with the SF60 (or others SF60 I'm not ready to buy) and if I put the SF C1 on my SL, where and how can use any normal trigger synchronized with my main flash?

 

Yesterday I've confirmed that with a TTL flash on the SL I can use, at the same time, the lateral sync socket to use manually my SF 58 setting its old Mode A (only choosing a due F/Stop) giving a pseudo TTL added, even if necessary compensating its flow with plus/minus aperture. ALL MEANS that if I were able to find a simple trigger plugged to that socket I could use all the rest of my flashes, Mode M or Mode A, perfectly synchronized with my main flash SF 60. Do you agree or are something I forget hidden?

 

Please, help… If I’ve to wait for news from Leica receivers or new Nissin firmware my Home-Studio never will see the light.

 

Francisco.

[wlaidlaw]

Hi Francisco, 

 

I am pretty much the same as you with similar flashes except my 45 CL-4 has died and I have not as yet bought the SF60 + SF C1. I too am waiting to see what happens with the updated Nissin software as I want to get the SF-C1 but with a Nissin MG10 hammerhead instead of the SF60. I have been using the SF40 with the SF58 in slave mode, as that avoids long cables. It generally needs some tweaking of flash power on both flashes to get correct exposure but in digital that costs nothing. If I was using my film M7 (the only TTL M I have, all my other film M's being non-TTL) on reversal film with its narrow latitude, I would be a bit more wary of using this as you don't get instant results to check exposure and would need to bracket, which could get a bit expensive. 

 

Wilson

[FMB]

Hi, Wilson.

Have you experimented the use of Mode A to achieve a semiautomatic exposure?

Many people like better this mode more than TTL. Specially when is needed, for instance subjects against the sun.

 

Francisco

[wlaidlaw]

Hi, Wilson.

Have you experimented the use of Mode A to achieve a semiautomatic exposure?

Many people like better this mode more than TTL. Specially when is needed, for instance subjects against the sun.

 

Francisco

 

Francisco, 

 

Remember that the SF40 does not have an Automatic Aperture priority thyristor controlled mode, unlike the SF58. Its A setting is a variant of TTL and there is no thyristor sensor on the SF40 flash. I have found it is better to use the SF40 on TTL as the trigger on the camera and the 58 as the remote slave, simply because it is so much easier to fine tune the flash power up and down on the 40 compared to the 58. It should work equally well the other way round but you could then of course, use the 58 on Automatic mode. I left my 58 behind at my UK  house by error over last weekend, so am just limited to the 40 now in France plus various bulb flashes. 

 

Wilson

Edited July 11, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[sillbeers15]

As an amateur not worried till now by studio Photography, I've never thought that someday I'll be interested on triggers, receivers and softboxes and beauty dishes. But now that I'm getting old, very old, all this phantasy begins to catch my attention, because playing photography at home it's very attractive.

 

This tedious prologue has to do with the fact that I've several Leica flashes (SF 24D, SF 58, SF 40 and Metz 45-CT4) and I've bought a new SF 60+SF C1 in order to be able to use my Leica SL with several flashes OFF CAMERA meanwhile my hypothetic model does her work.

 

You can imagine my problem: How to manage all these lights synchronized? The SF C1 only speaks for the moment with the SF60 (or others SF60 I'm not ready to buy) and if I put the SF C1 on my SL, where and how can use any normal trigger synchronized with my main flash?

 

Yesterday I've confirmed that with a TTL flash on the SL I can use, at the same time, the lateral sync socket to use manually my SF 58 setting its old Mode A (only choosing a due F/Stop) giving a pseudo TTL added, even if necessary compensating its flow with plus/minus aperture. ALL MEANS that if I were able to find a simple trigger plugged to that socket I could use all the rest of my flashes, Mode M or Mode A, perfectly synchronized with my main flash SF 60. Do you agree or are something I forget hidden?

 

Please, help… If I’ve to wait for news from Leica receivers or new Nissin firmware my Home-Studio never will see the light.

 

Francisco.

 

Hi Francisco,

I'll attempt to answer your question about wanting a flash on camera for TTL and also trigger off camera flash TTL or no TTL.

 

Firstly if there is no budget constraint, get the SF C1 to mount it in the hotshoe of your SL or M, Q & S. Get mutiple SF60s for off camera flash (TTL or/& Manual). Mount one of the flashes on a cold shoe bracket attached to the tripod socket of your camera. This way you get full flexibility on both on & off camera flash.

 

2nd way to utilize your other flashes on manual mode or auto mode. To trigger them and still keep a TTL controlled flash mounted on your camera, you can either use simple wireless triggers attached to the sync cord attached to your SL's X-sync point or purchased a third party Nikon compatible hotshoe extention woth a X-sync terminal for your wireless trigger to attach (as transmitter) and connect another set/sets of wireless trigger (as receivers on your non-TTL controlled flashes at off camera position. Another simpler way is to use your on camera flash to optically trigger your off camera flashes (with line of sight).

 

Hope that helps...

[sillbeers15]

The following is the reply I've received today from Leica regarding my encounter of successfully paring SF C1 to a current Nissin's NAS compatible flash i60A but could not fire the flash off camera after I mounted the SF C1 onto my SL:

 

"Thank you for your request.

The Nissin flashes will be supported by the Leica SF C1 in future. The non Leica versions of this flash need an firmware update. This update will be released directly from Nissin. We don’t have any information when this update will be available."

 

Mit freundlichen Grussen / kind regards

Thomas Schmidt

Leica Camera AG

Customer Care - Specialist Product Support

 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by sillbeers15

[wlaidlaw]

 

The following is the reply I've received today from Leica regarding my encounter of successfully paring SF C1 to a current Nissin's NAS compatible flash i60A but could not fire the flash off camera after I mounted the SF C1 onto my SL:

 

"Thank you for your request.

The Nissin flashes will be supported by the Leica SF C1 in future. The non Leica versions of this flash need an firmware update. This update will be released directly from Nissin. We don’t have any information when this update will be available."

 

Mit freundlichen Grussen / kind regards

Thomas Schmidt

Leica Camera AG

Customer Care - Specialist Product Support

 

 

 

 

A bit like the sign in British pubs: "Free beer tomorrow" 

Edited July 11, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[FMB]

sillbeers15,

 

As you say the first option needs money and this is not something I'm ready to invest for such game.

 

The second way is more or less what I try to start on. I've to comment with my dealer about which set would be less voluminous not to feel me uncomfortably  using the camera.

 

Via optical manner I will always be conditioned by the doubt " if some flash had  failed" and, what is worse, conditioned by the SD or FD reaction of my old flashes.

 

The answer of Leica could be put in a frame.

 

Anyway, thank you very much for your assistance.

 

Wilson,

"Forget all hope ness". Leica will not move one inch for us.

 

Francisco.

[Guest]

Good news - but too late - I couldn't wait for a modern flash system from Leica and I've gone Godox!

 

I have two AD200 from Godox. I wonder how I get them to work with a CL I am contemplating buying.

[sillbeers15]

I have two AD200 from Godox. I wonder how I get them to work with a CL I am contemplating buying.

You would likely be able to still use your AD200 on manual mode combined with SF60s fired from SF C1 by stacking the SF C1 on top of your Godox trigger when mounted onto your camera hotshoe.

[LocalHero1953]

I have two AD200 from Godox. I wonder how I get them to work with a CL I am contemplating buying.

I have no interest in TTL or HSS for off-camera flash, so I just use either the Godox XPro for control and triggering or the Godox V850 for just triggering. I mainly use them with the SL, but they would work on the CL as well - though the V850 would be a bit top heavy.

[LocalHero1953]

You would likely be able to still use your AD200 on manual mode combined with SF60s fired from SF C1 by stacking the SF C1 on top of your Godox trigger when mounted onto your camera hotshoe.

Much better to avoid the expensive Leica/Nissin system here: I doubt the Godox X1-T controller passes the full interface from the Leica through to its hot shoe, so you gain nothing from the SFC1 or SF60. And the XPro (a much better controller) has no hot shoe.

Edited July 13, 2018 by LocalHero1953

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

 

The following is the reply I've received today from Leica regarding my encounter of successfully paring SF C1 to a current Nissin's NAS compatible flash i60A but could not fire the flash off camera after I mounted the SF C1 onto my SL:

 

"Thank you for your request.

The Nissin flashes will be supported by the Leica SF C1 in future. The non Leica versions of this flash need an firmware update. This update will be released directly from Nissin. We don’t have any information when this update will be available."

 

Mit freundlichen Grussen / kind regards

Thomas Schmidt

Leica Camera AG

Customer Care - Specialist Product Support

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that. Saved me some time. They don't sell the Air10S controller here yet. I'd have had to order one from overseas to see if it worked. Now I know. Leica really should have noted the "in the future" bit in the quick start. Here in Oz they open themselves to all sorts of consumer protection stuff as we have pretty straightforward laws regarding "not as advertised". 

 

Some years ago I thought multiple off camera TTL would be awesome. So I spent my money and got it all working (not on a Leica) reliably. Used it twice and realised that it's so much easier to use a manual set up for multiple lights. Never tried again and never had a desire too. I suppose HSS would be nice but my newly arrived NiSi vario-ND will solve 95% of that. Or I can use an S007/X1D with leaf shutter lenses.

 

Here in Oz the SF60 is about 50% more than the i60. Not bad in Leica terms and half the price of the old SF64. I'm really pleased with my SF60's (x2. I have two SL's) and controller. They're working reliably and have enough power for my applications. I'll switch to proper lights (Godox or Elinchrom) if I need the full deal because lighting is all about the modifiers. I'll use TTL for when I need a single light off camera and manual if I'm using two. Being able to have a small light flash that goes off camera and on, is handy.

 

I do hope Leica consider getting Nissin to make them a version of the larger flashes in Leica. That hammerhead might have enough power to fire through a brolly.

 

Gordon