RF alignment. Here we go again.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If this were any other brand, a user would make a video explaining the different types of adjustments that can be made and how to do them. But since this is Leica and nobody cares for video here, I guess we will continue to get confusing descriptions of vertical and horizontal adjauments and unclear description of which way to turn the hex key when adjusting the Rangefinder.

 

 

It ain't that hard. Turn it one way. If that makes it worse turn it the other way.........

 

 

Gordon

[Eric1]

I talked to a guy today who had focusing issues with the M10 right out of the box. Sent it back for a replacement.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Tobers]

It ain't that hard. Turn it one way. If that makes it worse turn it the other way.........

 

 

Gordon

That's about it to be honest. There's really no mystery about it.

[John Ricard]

That's about it to be honest. There's really no mystery about it.

 

Actually it is indeed a mystery. I've been a heavy Leica user for about 5 years now, and I have no idea how to adjust the rangefinder.  And yes, I've looked at that poorly hand drawn diagram that appears in one of the FAQs here.  I recently purchased the M10 (after having sold the M9, M9 Monochrom and M240) and it was out of calibration right out of the box.  I had to mail it all the way back to Samy's camera in Los Angeles from my home in NYC.  So after waiting months to receive the camera, I will now be without it for another month or so as I wait for the replacement.  Perhaps I could have adjusted it myself it it was the "horizontal" or "vertical" adjustment or whichever one is the easier one to adjust yourself.  But I've never seen clear instructions on how to do it yourself.   

 

A hand drawn diagram with hand written notes is simply not how things are done in 2017...

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Ignoring the fact that in some countries doing work on your camera may have warranty implications......

 

There have been several informative threads about rangefinder adjustment on this forum. Might I suggest that if you can't understand the information presented here, that adjusting something Leica don't want you to do yourself, might not be a good idea. The basics of rangefinder adjustment haven't changed since 1953 only the tools required to do so.

 

A quick search brings up this thread for horizontal....

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/

 

Start half way down the first page with Julians posts. I STRONGLY suggest you only try the infinity adjustment unless you are extremely confident in your skills.

 

The vertical is stupidly easy. Remove dot. Adjust with allen key. Replace dot. Before the M240 you needed a special tool. Now you don't. But even how to make one is described in these forums if you wanted to adjust an M9. All it takes is some time and the search function.

 

Gordon

[jmahto]

Well, not to dampen all the enthusiastic posts here, I would like to point out that there are two adjustments and not one. The hex key one is very simple but the other one requires a bent screw driver and some skill if it is stuck. Julian's post mentioned above does talk about both.

 

If your "other" adjustment is ok then you will get satisfactory results with hex key. If not then you will adjust for infinity while throwing off calibration for close up.

 

Been there done that. Lesson learnt is that if you still struggling with focus adjustment then either do the both adjustment or send the camera and ALL your lux and nocts for calibration. There is no point of suffering through frustration.

 

In this direct link Julian explains it in the diagram.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/index.php?app=core&module=global&section=reputation&do=add_rating&app_rate=forums&type=pid&type_id=1292446&rating=1&secure_key=48a336a88e8568dc762aca0ef242be76&post_return=1292446

[John Ricard]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

 

 

A quick search brings up this thread for horizontal....

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/

 

I know I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but this is one of the hand drawn diagrams that I was referring to in my post.  Seriously, the diagram is absolutely useless to me.  It is totally abstract and is nowhere near as helpful as a simple 2 minute video would be.  I realize people on the Leica forum tend to be adamantly anti video, but the truth is, in 2017, when you want to learn something -how to change oil in your car, how to set up a printer, how to clean dust off the camera sensor, how to cook fish, how to do a card trick...whatever, you watch a video that explains it.  You don't look at a hand drawn diagram and try to figure out what it means.  And that lone diagram has been the primary source of rangefinder calibration information on this forum for years.  Oh, sorry, that diagram and the one where the guy drew the two screws and shows some arrows indicating which one to turn.  The only point I'm making, that if this were any other brand, other than Leica, someone would have made a video by now. If I understood it, I would have made it myself.

Edited May 20, 2017 by John Ricard

[jdlaing]

Gee.

 

Unlike all the Doctors, Dentists, Engineers and other Rocket Scientists represented here I am but a lowly unwashed construction worker. I started out adult life as an Apprentice Carpenter and then, after graduating I did another apprenticeship as a Cabinetmaker.i have spent the 50 years I worked learning all kinds of tasks from hand drawn diagrams and verbally as well as books without having to have a video production.

 

Imagine that.

[jdlaing]

But there is help if you look for it.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I know I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but this is one of the hand drawn diagrams that I was referring to in my post.  Seriously, the diagram is absolutely useless to me.  It is totally abstract and is nowhere near as helpful as a simple 2 minute video would be.  I realize people on the Leica forum tend to be adamantly anti video, but the truth is, in 2017, when you want to learn something -how to change oil in your car, how to set up a printer, how to clean dust off the camera sensor, how to cook fish, how to do a card trick...whatever, you watch a video that explains it.  You don't look at a hand drawn diagram and try to figure out what it means.  And that lone diagram has been the primary source of rangefinder calibration information on this forum for years.  Oh, sorry, that diagram and the one where the guy drew the two screws and shows some arrows indicating which one to turn.  The only point I'm making, that if this were any other brand, other than Leica, someone would have made a video by now. If I understood it, I would have made it myself.

 

A guy makes a drawing showing which screws to turn and which direction to turn them and that's not good enough? Even when it's followed by a photo of the parts shown in the drawing. Did you want a CAD drawing? Oh wait. You NEED a video to be able to do it. Without trying to be rude, if you can't understand those instructions you have no place doing a rangefinder adjustment. your camera is better off in the hands of the official repairer.

 

RF calibration isn't a simple 2 minute video. Without some rather specialised equipment it's a process of trial and error that might take a few minutes or a few hours to get right. RF calibration is NOT for the faint hearted because it's entirely possible to screw it up good and proper.

 

I did a simple search and managed to find a few videos on rangefinder calibration so they do exist. However I don't see how any of them are more useful than what's available on these forums. Those drawings you seem to criticise so willingly are not only instructional the're accurate (and certainly not abstract) and followed by photos of the items mentioned in the drawings.

 

When I want to cook some fish I use a cookbook......... Not everyone needs a video to handhold them through things. Even my teenage kids like to learn from different sources.

 

I'm going to stop now because I'm getting grumpy about this. You can't do something. Someone else has taken their time and effort to put that information in a thread for anyone to use. You don't understand, or choose not to understand the help because it's not available in your preferred format. You make arbitrary and incorrect assumptions about the information available. And yet somehow this is someone else's fault?

 

Gordon

[John Ricard]

But there is help if you look for it.

Let's be clear here. So if you had no understanding of how to adjust the rangefinder on an M10 or M240. Is this a video you'd find helpful? Would you watch this and feel you might be able to calibrate the rangefinder yourself? Personally, this video would be of no help at all. It doesn't even explain what problem it is trying to solve. I honestly don't know what "vertical adjustment" is even referring to.

 

Again, it takes 2 seconds to find hundreds of detailed videos that break down complicated Photoshop techniques. It's hard to believe that this video showing how to adjust something or other on a 25 year old camera is the best we can do for people having trouble calibrating the focus on a digital Leica.

[John Ricard]

A guy makes a drawing showing which screws to turn and which direction to turn them and that's not good enough?

With all due respect, just because someone makes an effort to draw how to calibrate that doesn't mean the information is going to be understandable by a lay person. And yes, I do expect a video to magically be available on You Tube. I live in a world where You Tube has thousands of very well done, informative videos on all sorts of subjects. And, I would add, some of those videos suck -even though someone went through the trouble of making the video. In 2017, it is not at all unrealistic for me to expect that there is a good video explaining the calibration process.

[John Ricard]

Gee.

 

Unlike all the Doctors, Dentists, Engineers and other Rocket Scientists represented here I am but a lowly unwashed construction worker. I started out adult life as an Apprentice Carpenter and then, after graduating I did another apprenticeship as a Cabinetmaker.i have spent the 50 years I worked learning all kinds of tasks from hand drawn diagrams and verbally as well as books without having to have a video production.

 

Imagine that.

 

 

And during those 50 years we've watched as pretty much every bookstore containing those "hand drawn diagrams" has disappeared.  Meanwhile we've seen the emergence of You Tube where there instructional videos are one of the most popular video genres.  We've also seen ordinary people like yourself master not one skill, but several skills.  I can't tell you how many times I see a makeup artist and hairstylist in my studio engaging in a conversation about video editing using a professional program like Final Cut Pro. Pretty much everybody I meet these days has some decent knowledge in a variety of areas, and instructional videos and instructional video sites like Lynda.com and Creative Live are a really big part of that.  Meanwhile, the Leica users are sitting around sharing the same 2 hand drawn diagrams year after year... 

[Steve Spencer]

And during those 50 years we've watched as pretty much every bookstore containing those "hand drawn diagrams" has disappeared.  Meanwhile we've seen the emergence of You Tube where there instructional videos are one of the most popular video genres.  We've also seen ordinary people like yourself master not one skill, but several skills.  I can't tell you how many times I see a makeup artist and hairstylist in my studio engaging in a conversation about video editing using a professional program like Final Cut Pro. Pretty much everybody I meet these days has some decent knowledge in a variety of areas, and instructional videos and instructional video sites like Lynda.com and Creative Live are a really big part of that.  Meanwhile, the Leica users are sitting around sharing the same 2 hand drawn diagrams year after year... 

 

All I can say is that John your response here seems both entitled and arrogant. You seem to feel your are entitled to a video to help you with your rangefinder calibration and you don't seem willing to put in the effort to work with a different medium. Neither do you seem to appreciate that some one put in a fair bit of work to make that hand drawn diagram. Guess what in my view you aren't even entitled to that hand drawn diagram and you should be thankful for it and to not appreciate it is to not recognize the hard work that others have put in before you. 

The arrogant part is when you don't realize how much work goes into developing a skill. You don't pick up most skills by watching an instructional video, and cabinet making is a serious skills that takes hours and hours of dedicated practice. In fact, to become an expert at most skills it takes 10,000 hours of practice. Adjusting a rangefinder won't take that kind of practice, but learning to repair camera more generally very well may. Cabinet making certainly does, and guess what learning to focus a rangefinder camera does as well. You should know that if you want to develop the skill of photographing with a Leica M you are going to have to put in thousands of hours of practicing to get good at it. You aren't going to learn it by watching an instructional video. Some things change with the times, but learning a skill is not one of them. It still takes thousands of hours of practice and those who put in that time and have developed that expertise should be respected for it. You didn't show the respect that was due in this post, at least in my view. This may be the internet age, but that doesn't change that skills and expertise aren't developed by watching a video. They are developed through thousands of hours of hard work and practice. I hope you are ready for that challenge with learning to focus a rangefinder camera.

[John Ricard]

I hope you are ready for that challenge with learning to focus a rangefinder camera.

 

 

I'm not talking about learning to focus the camera.  I've gotten pretty good at it over the years.  I was only talking about learning how to adjust the rangefinder.  According to the posts on this very forum, it is not difficult to do.  I'm not expecting to put in 10,000 to learn how to do it.  Apparently there are 2 different types of adjustments that can be done.  One is difficult and the other isn't.  That is the one I'm talking about. 

 

And maybe my tone sounds arrogant in writing as it is hard to convey tone in writing.  However, I don't have any anger behind what I am saying.   And yes, I do feel entitled to the video in a sense that anything I've tried to learn in the past few years (jiu jitsu, card tricks, photoshop techniques, video editing techniques, sensor cleaning techniques, how to light the pilot on my boiler, how to market my business....I could go on) I've been able to find an instructional video instantly.  I think the internet has given us all a sense of entitlement.  The instructional content that is out there for free is a beautiful thing.  And I'm proud to say I've contributed dozens of instructional photography videos to You Tube over the years.

[Jeff S]

Apparently there are 2 different types of adjustments that can be done. One is difficult and the other isn't. That is the one I'm talking about.

.

Videos are nice, for sure, but if you don't know which is which after participating in this short thread, then you really should pay more attention. Gordon was explicit in his posts above that the vertical merely requires removal of the dot and a turn of the screw. Even I can understand that.

 

Jeff

[Maarten]

John let me help you. I'm a poor videographer but let me try to write the scenario for you.

The aim of the video is to adjust the distance = horizontal setting of the rangefinder.

You are a photographer so I'm sure you have the ability to create the image in your mind.

 

Imagine you watch a video of a digital Leica body with the lens removed. This is an instructional video so the body is well lit.

Inside the camera you see the shutter blinds in different shades of grey with a shiny little wheel in front just at the top of the bayonet opening.

Now imagine the camera is slowly turned 180 degrees and angled a little bit towards you. While it's being turned upside down you keep on looking at the shiny wheel.

Inside the shiny wheel you can see a six sided hole. A key like this one would fit in.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

(note: this is the famous hexkey, you need the 2 millimeter version).

 

Now you see a hand approaching with the 2mm hexkey. The short end is angled towards the center of the shiny wheel.

The key engages and it is turning the screw inside the wheel a little bit. (note: the turn of the key will be so slightly that it is not possible to show in the video).

Then somebody attaches a 50mm lens (the range finder was designed initially for a 50mm lens, but of course you can use any other lens), lifts the camera and looks through the viewfinder to a very remote object and turn the lens to the infinity mark. The object (a high building for example) is at least at a 1 mile distance, the sky is clear and the view is good.

What the video cannot show is that the person looking through the viewfinder checks if the horizontal adjustment at infinity is now correct. Oeps, it got worse.

So the lens is removed again and the video starts all over but now the hexkey is being turned into the other direction (still not visible in the video).

It might be needed to hold the shiny wheel with one finger, because it will move a little when you put force on the hexkey to turn the screw (hand in front of the lens mount so difficult to see in the video).

This procedure is repeated until the person in the video is satisfied with the infinity setting. Then he can relax: his camera will be adjusted (and in case it isn't it is now time to have it serviced by Leica).

 

Maarten

Edited May 22, 2017 by Maarten

[jmahto]

.

.......
This procedure is repeated until the person in the video is satisfied with the infinity setting. Then he can relax:

......

Not quite. The person has more than one lens and he is bloody perfectionist. After adjusting infinity of his 50mm lens and relaxing with fine Colombian coffee (not shown in the video), he attaches another lens (lets say 35mm) and repeats the process. This time 35mm is missing infinity mark which was perfectly ok before the adjustment for 50mm lens....

 

The person tries to relax with a fine single malt this time and goes over the possibilities...

1) He messed up following instructions. In next attempt he will be more careful.

2) He was very careful and followed instructions but it seems the RF is out of whack not only for infinity but the offset as well (the difficult part)

3) 50mm lens need to be checked and adjusted

4) 35mm lens need to be checked and adjusted

5) All other lenses need to be checked and adjusted

6) He will be out of camera and most of his lenses for next 3 months while it is being handled by experts in Leica repair facility.

 

He throws the allen key in the dustbin and pours another drink....

[pedaes]

It is a fact that if you ask the nice people at the Leica facility to adjust your rangefinder, they will suggest they adjust all your lens at same time to take everything back to 'factory settings'. Then in theory your lenses will also be ok on your other bodies adjusted to 'factory settings'. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jto555]

.

Not quite. The person has more than one lens and he is bloody perfectionist. After adjusting infinity of his 50mm lens and relaxing with fine Colombian coffee (not shown in the video), he attaches another lens (lets say 35mm) and repeats the process. This time 35mm is missing infinity mark which was perfectly ok before the adjustment for 50mm lens....

 

The person tries to relax with a fine single malt this time and goes over the possibilities...

1) He messed up following instructions. In next attempt he will be more careful.

2) He was very careful and followed instructions but it seems the RF is out of whack not only for infinity but the offset as well (the difficult part)

3) 50mm lens need to be checked and adjusted

4) 35mm lens need to be checked and adjusted

5) All other lenses need to be checked and adjusted

6) He will be out of camera and most of his lenses for next 3 months while it is being handled by experts in Leica repair facility.

 

He throws the allen key in the dustbin and pours another drink....

Were you looking in the window of my house. That is exactly what I did! Except I drank a real whiskey, no Scotch malts here...  

 

Joking aside, when I adjusted my 75mm on the M240 I found the all the lenses were then correctly aligned. The body must have taken a knock to get the focus so far out. However, going back over shots before the knock I found that the camera was slightly back focusing. In a portrait I would focus on the near eye and the back eye was sharpest! Now the focus is perfect. The only difference I did (aside from the whiskey...) is that I did all my tests and adjustment at 'portrait' distances and not infinity. This is the most common working distance for me.