Leica M-D(iscussion) : to screen or not to screen. That is the question.

[marknorton]

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The digital Ms, starting with the M8, were necessarily thicker than a film M because of what has to sit behind the focal plane. In a film M, the film is at the focal plane and behind that is the pressure plate and ISO setting dial. In a digital M, the focal plane is somewhere near the front of the sensor; behind it is the sensor package, the sensor mounting plate, the sensor circuit board. Behind that is the DSP board, the LCD module and the LCD cover glass.

 

All of that adds something like 10 - 15 mm but not all that extra depth translates into a thicker body. On a film M, the lens mount is flush with the front of the camera; on a digital M, the lens mount sits a few mm forward of the front of the camera which caused significant problems for the rangefinder coupling. At the back, the display protrudes by a few mm beyond the back of the camera. That extra depth requirement is therefore met by these front and rear protrusions as well as the actual increase in body thickness.

 

If you remove the need for the rangefinder coupling, the display could be made flush with the back of the camera, the camera itself made thinner and the lens mount set as far forward as it needs to to, just like the T or SL with an M lens adapter. Remove the display and the body could be made thinner still though you will always have the M lens mount sitting proud of the front of the camera.

[bocaburger]

There are some people who can't be around alcohol or cigarettes without partaking, so I suppose it's the same thing for some people with certain camera features even if those can be disabled. 

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[Paulus]

Well, from rumors I have heard, the next M may very well be rid of the rangefinder.

Yes it's called an MDA the only M without an M ( Messsucher, I realy love those three sss.... )

[lct]

Curious that some of us need another Leica EVIL. Leica offers 10 cameras with EVF already and yet we want another one? I can understand that some people are not keen of rangefinders but we have other choices at Leica and elsewhere haven't we?

[ramarren]

Well, from rumors I have heard, the next M may very well be rid of the rangefinder.  Frankly, I could live without it if a good built in EVF, so if that is what is keeping the M from slimming down, "Viva the EVF"!  

 

 

Without the RF, it's no longer really an M anyway. At which point, the next model of the T with built in EVF and the M Adapter T/L fitted to it is all you need.

 

The geometry of the M mount is what prevents the M digital bodies from being any slimmer. Styled like something else, with the lens flange on a pedestal and the RF redesigned to suit that, would allow the body to be slimmer where you grip it, but there will always be that bulge in the portion that mounts the lens to maintain the geometry. You can't get away from the depth from lens mount to back of the camera necessary to allow for the proper register and shutter/sensor stack. 

[Belle123]

I think that novel M already has appeared and that they decided to call it an "SL". Only it's not any slimmer to speak of.

Well, rumor I heard was after the SL had been released awhile.  We shall see, won't we.  There is nothing that says the M has to remain a rangefinder. 

[jaapv]

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Except that M means Messsucher=Rangefinder...

You are postulating a Q with interchangeable lenses.

[Jeff S]

But what type of RF?   http://leicarumors.com/2015/10/14/leicas-patents-for-optoelectronic-rangefinder.aspx/

 

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

Except that M means Messsucher=Rangefinder...

 

 

Yeah, like the MDa. We had the M3, M2 then the M0.

 

Leica of course is so wedded to its consistent naming convention, it's going to take this Very seriously indeed ...

 

Yawn - too early for this nonsense.

[Belle123]

Except that M means Messsucher=Rangefinder...

You are postulating a Q with interchangeable lenses.

Well, not quite.  Am sure the Q with interchangeable lenses would probably not take M lenses but I don't see them going that direction with the Q anyway.  Maybe what we need is an EVF that incorporates the rangefinder view.  Then that would save a lot of space and get us down to a thinner M.  One can wish.

[Rick]

For me, just me... I like having an LCD, simple.  I really don't need to think any further.

 

Rick

[AlanG]

However, should digital photography have started out screenless, everybody would have been over the moon with Leica bringing out a camera with an LCD...

Digital did start out screenless with mf backs and early Kodaks. I used a DCS 460 and mostly shot tethered. Getting a digital body with a good LCD was great. The one on the first Canon 1Ds was just marginally good enough since it was so small.

 

With film cameras there was always risk of a hair or something caught in the film gate. So many would rotate cameras on a shoot.

 

Would you want to shoot a couple of thousand shots on a 64 gig card of job or vacation and not know that you had a dirty sensor or bad card.

 

It seems to me that even a purist could simply resist looking at the screen instead of buying this camera. So maybe it is mostly about making some kind of statement about one's equipment rather than providing any benefit at all.

Edited May 1, 2016 by AlanG

[Peter H]

...................

 

Would you want to shoot a couple of thousand shots on a 64 gig card of job or vacation and not know that youb had a dirty sensor or bad card. It seemsvto me that even a purist could simply resist looking at the screen instead of buying this camera.

 

 

Don't be so sensible. This is about not being sensible. Stop it at once.

[ECohen]

I so want to understand no LCD...but having it it and not using it is better than not having it at all.

Especially when it doesn't change the price or the cameras dimensions? 

All it does it take away to me what to me is a very important option....insurance

 

I dont miss shots because if the LCD any more than I missed shots because I was changing lenses or film.

 

Its your job the get the shot and the right tool is  the one that takes away minimizes  option for error.

[AlanG]

This and the special editions are mostly about publicity and profits and have nothing to do with advancing photography.

[jaapv]

Whatever. A Leica M without some kind of rangefinder, opto-mechanical or digitized, is unsalable - and Leica knows it. Indeed nonsense - M0 for sure.

 

Yeah, like the MDa. We had the M3, M2 then the M0.


Leica of course is so wedded to its consistent naming convention, it's going to take this Very seriously indeed ...


Yawn - too early for this nonsense.

 

[jaapv]

But what type of RF?   http://leicarumors.com/2015/10/14/leicas-patents-for-optoelectronic-rangefinder.aspx/

 

Jeff

Precisely

[IkarusJohn]

 

Whatever. A Leica M without some kind of rangefinder, opto-mechanical or digitized, is unsalable - and Leica knows it. Indeed nonsense - M0 for sure.

 

 

 

I'm sure that's right. Just challenging your dogmatism - M means messucher, so Leica will never release an M without a rangefinder (however that is defined). But it has. 

 

Repeating this mantra doesn't make it true. 

 

To my mind, the M camera is all about the form factor, the fabulous lenses and the lack of a mirrorbox. Provided the image can be framed and focused, whether through an optical device, an electronic one, or off the sensor, if it fits the M form and takes M lenses as native, it will be an M.

 

Not saying I'd buy one. I like the optical rangefinder as it currently is - not because of some silly syntactical argument that M stands for anything much. M3 meant 3 windows. M(240) ...

Edited May 1, 2016 by IkarusJohn

[r7photo]

I just did a photo shoot for a couples child, lcd screen was useful help me move and set Aperture and play with light, not sure I would not want a quick review on the spot, also it help relax young model as she was excited to see quick picks on camera, black 240p

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

I could not care less about dogmatism and syntactical issues but the M is by essence a rangefinder. Remove the rangefinder and it won't be an M anymore.