Keith (M) Posted February 5, 2014 Share #1 Posted February 5, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The local camera club ran a portrait session last night - not a subject I have bothered with before, but I thought I might as well take advantage. The lighting was mostly flash-based but as I do not have either a flash-gun or a trigger, I had to make do with the 'static' lighting (soft box modelling lights + overhead neons). Assessing skin tones is not one of my strengths and on the rare occasion where I have taken a (family) portrait I have used b&w. Anyway, below is an example from the start of the session (a 250th @ f10.5!) and I wonder how forum portrait experts would judge the skin tones? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/221544-m240-apo-telyt-135mm-skin-tones/?do=findComment&comment=2526262'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Hi Keith (M), Take a look here M240 + APO Telyt 135mm Skin Tones. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
StephenPatterson Posted February 5, 2014 Share #2 Posted February 5, 2014 So mixed lighting with what I assume is Auto WB? Looks like the M did a pretty nice job, but as you were there and know what she looked like in person why are you asking us? Do you think she's a tad warm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted February 5, 2014 So mixed lighting with what I assume is Auto WB? Looks like the M did a pretty nice job, but as you were there and know what she looked like in person why are you asking us? Do you think she's a tad warm? I recall there was a lengthy dialogue about the skin tones from the M when it was introduced. I asked the question because I know that judging these tones is not one of my strengths (a lot of the examples in the various posts on the subject left me peering in vain trying to spot the differences). On that basis, I was seeking information on whether or not I'm on the right track or if people tell me there is a colour cast etc etc. Or maybe I'll just stay with monochrome! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 5, 2014 Share #4 Posted February 5, 2014 One of the odd things with the ver 1 firmware with the M was that skin tones when using strobes and soft boxes tended to be much more accurate. This result here looks very nice to me, especially compared to some of my "Oopma Loompa" orange portraits from early last year. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted February 5, 2014 Share #5 Posted February 5, 2014 I laughed at the oompa loompa, brings back memories too, not just last year... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted February 5, 2014 Share #6 Posted February 5, 2014 On my monitor at work here they look acceptable to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted February 5, 2014 Share #7 Posted February 5, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Keith, this was a classic situation where I would have used a grey card (WhiBal or Pantone). I guess a member would have had one at the meeting. Was a grey card used by anyone? If you don't use one, it enables LR to remove colour contamination, typical of mixed lighting or unwanted colour influences from walls clothing or furniture etc. Then you can start to examine how faithfully skin tones have been rendered. Unless you remove these uncertainties, it is difficult to pinpoint the culprits if you have doubts about colour fidelity. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted February 5, 2014 Share #8 Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I actually think that there are some problems with skin tone in this photograph. The colour of the guy's arm holding the light meter seems about right. But the colour of the woman's face is noticeably different from the colour of her arm. And the head/face of the two men in the background are very red/orange and very distracting. The difference between the woman's face and arm strikes me as quite hard to understand. Was she wearing makeup? Been to the beach and used sunscreen on her face but not her arms? Or is it just the result of the lighting in the room? It's quite odd. I'm looking at this using the latest 15" MacBook Pro with Retina Screen, calibrated. If others aren't seeing the same, I'd like to know. Edited February 5, 2014 by redge Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
genefama Posted February 5, 2014 Share #9 Posted February 5, 2014 I think it's pretty much guaranteed she was wearing makeup. As for white balance, it's a start. But sometimes it actually pulls up the magenta and pulls down the "peaches and cream" by cooling the image. It can on occasion isolate the skin-tone problems and make them even harder to correct. I mean, it usually makes sense to set white balance, but in my observation the skin tone difficulties of the camera occur in spite of a proper white balance. The way I'd describe the usual problem: Caucasian people are pink instead of light tan in color. I've worked up some adjustments in LR that kind of work in some situations but so far the camera doesn't excel at natural-looking, healthy skin tones and a really good solution escapes me. This example you've posted seems pretty good, however, all in all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 6, 2014 Share #10 Posted February 6, 2014 Considering that this is a mix of fluorescents and soft box modeling lights, probably with vastly different Kelvin, I think the AutoWB did a very commendable job. Perfect? No, but as others have pointed out shooting a grey card would have helped. AutoWB isn't magic and the software can only do so much to guess what WB value the photographer desires in an inconsistent scene. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 6, 2014 Share #11 Posted February 6, 2014 Keith, this was a classic situation where I would have used a grey card (WhiBal or Pantone). I guess a member would have had one at the meeting. Was a grey card used by anyone? If you don't use one, it enables LR to remove colour contamination, typical of mixed lighting or unwanted colour influences from walls clothing or furniture etc. Then you can start to examine how faithfully skin tones have been rendered. Unless you remove these uncertainties, it is difficult to pinpoint the culprits if you have doubts about colour fidelity. Especially as the M has a very well thought out “grey card” WB setting. With constant light I find it gives a perfect neutral starting point for postprocessing, ideal for batch conversions. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted February 6, 2014 Share #12 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) The problems that I see can be fixed fairly easily in Photoshop. As someone who has just recently started using Lightroom, can that programme address these problems, or is it really a Photoshop job? Capture One? It would be interesting to see this photo with no manipulation, right from the camera (assuming that that is not what we are getting). Edited February 6, 2014 by redge Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
genefama Posted February 6, 2014 Share #13 Posted February 6, 2014 Like I said earlier, the skin tone problems with the M240 don't seem related to white balance. Setting the white balance doesn't fix them. I hear people blame the auto white balance when it usually works fine. If you take a pic of a Color Checker with AWB set and then click the neutral patch of the image in Lightroom, the overall temperature won't change much from the AWB temperature. The skin tone patch, however, will look pink instead of tan. This tells me the problem isn't white balance, but color balance and/or saturation/luminance inconsistencies in the skin tones. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted February 6, 2014 Share #14 Posted February 6, 2014 Frankly I find those skin tones unacceptable. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 6, 2014 Share #15 Posted February 6, 2014 I am no expert, but I just wanted to know did you post the OOC jpeg or a jpeg generated by a DNG in your computer? I ask because often I find OOC jpegs tend to be too warm with no in camera adjustments. Also, If you use LR, have you tired the "auto" on Basic mode/develop Module to see what it gives you? Then if that is no good, have you ventured to use the up/down list next to "as shot"? My first reaction was her face looked a bit too red/orange, but that can be corrected in seconds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks for all the replies - interesting variety of opinions regarding the skin tones! Below is the original .dng, merely exported from LR5.3 as a 950px .jpg at <300kb to suit the forum rules. My original thought was that the skin tones were a little orange and I (to use the technical term) played about with settings in LR with the results as shown in the first image. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/221544-m240-apo-telyt-135mm-skin-tones/?do=findComment&comment=2526811'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 6, 2014 Share #17 Posted February 6, 2014 I think the best solution would be a grey card and camera profile. Saves a lot of farting around in postprocessing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 6, 2014 Share #18 Posted February 6, 2014 Keith, on my monitor the skin tones do look a little "orange" in the initial DNG conversion (your second posted photo). Whilst different, the tones in the revised version (your photo in the opening post) still look unnatural to me – too yellowy-pink for want of a better description. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 6, 2014 Share #19 Posted February 6, 2014 Keith, on my monitor the skin tones do look a little "orange" in the initial DNG conversion (your second posted photo). Whilst different, the tones in the revised version (your photo in the opening post) still look unnatural to me – too yellowy-pink for want of a better description. Yes but the girl's shoulder looks very natural, while I agree her face is somewhat "yellowy-pink" and the man's hand is a bit orange. Ah, mixed lighting... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share #20 Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks for the further feedback. As I wrote in the beginning, assessing skin tones in portraiture has always been a problem for me and studio portraiture is something I normally steer clear of. So I think I need to revert to my fallback solution... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/221544-m240-apo-telyt-135mm-skin-tones/?do=findComment&comment=2526877'>More sharing options...
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