barjohn Posted March 1, 2007 Share #201 Posted March 1, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I got home and did some test shots and I am finding WB is much improved but still not as good as setting it manually. JPGs appear to be better but DNGs appear to be much noisier and hard to clean up. I looked at shots I took at 1250 a week ago and tonight and there is no comparison. The new DNGs look really bad in comparison. Anyone else seeing this? I may post some crops at 100% straight from the camera and C1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 Hi barjohn, Take a look here Firmware v.1.91 for M8 available. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
MP3 Posted March 1, 2007 Share #202 Posted March 1, 2007 I got home and did some test shots and I am finding WB is much improved but still not as good as setting it manually. JPGs appear to be better but DNGs appear to be much noisier and hard to clean up. I looked at shots I took at 1250 a week ago and tonight and there is no comparison. The new DNGs look really bad in comparison. Anyone else seeing this? I may post some crops at 100% straight from the camera and C1. John Thanks for your DNG findings. Pls do post up some images for comparison if possible. So 'better playback view, better auto WB BUT noiser high ISO DNG', just hope it is not true for the latter. Best Matthew Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 1, 2007 Share #203 Posted March 1, 2007 Some more testing reveals that it makes a HUGE difference in WB whether you use a 486 filter or not. The three images are all shots of a white piece of paper. The light source is incandecent and to my upper left all at ISO 640. I am shooting the paper at f16 and out of focus. The first shot is useing a 50mm cron, no 486 filter with WB set to Incandecent. The second image is using a 40mm Rokkor with 486 filter WB set to Incandecent and the last image is the same lens but WB set to Auto. All were scaled down to 21% of original size. No other post processing, only in cameara JPG all set to standard psoition. I'm not sure what caused the black band at the bottom. Ignore the shadow to the right. I took subsequent shots with the 40MM where I eliminated the shadow and tried with and without the 486 filter and with the filter it can not set WB correctly. Even when you try to set it manually by shooting a white object it instead will have a blue cast. The Incandecent is pretty close without the 486 filter but auto is still off. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/17451-firmware-v191-for-m8-available/?do=findComment&comment=186411'>More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 1, 2007 Share #204 Posted March 1, 2007 I got home and did some test shots and I am finding WB is much improved but still not as good as setting it manually. JPGs appear to be better but DNGs appear to be much noisier and hard to clean up. I looked at shots I took at 1250 a week ago and tonight and there is no comparison. The new DNGs look really bad in comparison. Anyone else seeing this? I may post some crops at 100% straight from the camera and C1. I'm not sure that they are changed in 1.091 (the evanescent copy). Here are three 100% crops from the scene I posted earlier, each pushed one stop in C1, no other corrections, and noise correction (default is full, but i don't use it) turned off. 2500: 1250: 640: 2500 isn't pretty, but then it never is unless I transform to B/W. scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 1, 2007 Share #205 Posted March 1, 2007 Now got 1.091 via Guy's yousendit post. Sorry for earlier enthusiasm after having simply re-installed 1.09!! It was late when I got back home... IHMO 1.091 is better on auto - and this has to be useful. Yesterday, I did an urgent job for a client, (ended up with more than 400 images from 6 hours work) and needed to hand them processed images on disk at the end of the day (did the whole shoot in LR 1.0 and was very happy with the results). However, the job would have been so much easier if I hadn't had to spend so much time correcting the colour on the M8 shots. I was working with the 5D most of the time with the 85 1.2 L and the 28 summicron asph on the M8. A good combination working in interiors and shifting between people and context (shifting to the 16-35 for very wide)... What I did find was that with the 5D on Auto WB I hardly had to touch the images in post, but I kept on having to either set up WhiBal shots or set Manual WB on the Leica to feel safe, and STILL needed to do adjustments to give a consistent feel to the whole shoot. This really slowed me down (each room in the school had different aspect and lighting mix), even though I loved the results from the M. A couple of images to give a sense of what was going on are attached. First one is M8 (iso 320), second Canon (iso 400). Best Chris Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/17451-firmware-v191-for-m8-available/?do=findComment&comment=186497'>More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 1, 2007 Share #206 Posted March 1, 2007 Does the 1.091 allows the M8 to read SD-HC cards? Finally, Does the noise at high ISOs improve or not? (The noise at high ISOs is one of the most serious shortcomings of this camera, and I cannot understand why a good sensor yields so poor results). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 1, 2007 Share #207 Posted March 1, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does the 1.091 allows the M8 to read SD-HC cards?Finally, Does the noise at high ISOs improve or not? (The noise at high ISOs is one of the most serious shortcomings of this camera, and I cannot understand why a good sensor yields so poor results). Rubén, I don't think the M8 is noisy or at least my one is not. Maybe they vary. It is no noisier than other APS C sensor cameras I have or use, for example Sony R1 (10.3 MP CMOS) Nikon D200 (10.2 MP CCD). In fact I think it is quieter than the Nikon. The only one that might be a very little quieter is the Canon 30D but that only has 8MP on the same size size sensor, so it is easier to get it quiet. I know there is a thought that CMOS sensors are inherently quieter but today I don't think there is a lot in it - see attached PDF of argument. Of course the Leica will never be as quiet as full frame sensor cameras but as we know, that was not an option with current technology. Noise Ninja and the even better noise engine in Lightzone, cope very well with what noise there is. Brad Husick has done some very good profiles for NN on the forum - here http://tinyurl.com/2d93zr Wilson CCD_vs_CMOS_Litwiller_2005.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 1, 2007 Share #208 Posted March 1, 2007 Finally, Does the noise at high ISOs improve or not? I posted "office shots" at 2500, 1250, and 640 earlier in the thread. Yes, they are still noisy with 1.091, but those were a particularly tough example -- high dynamic range as well as low light guarantees that you will see the sensor's noise floor, shot noise, whatever... I don't use 2500 in color, but I have gotten good results with ISO 1250, carefully exposed so that the image is carried by the midtones. In last night's pictures, 640 was OK, even after each of the examples had been exposed to hold the laptop screen, and then pushed 1 stop in C1. scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj viau Posted March 1, 2007 Share #209 Posted March 1, 2007 Its always surprising to see how quick you people are! We put yesterday a less than perfect update online just ten minutes on the German homepage due to a content management system. As we saw it, we immediately reverted to the former version but a couple of you were quicker than we were! The people who download this "update" should please revert to the former version. We are still working on the real update for the M8. It will be advertised on the homepage in English also and I will announce it here too in order to avoid further confusion. Please accept our excuses for this short problem, JJ Viau Leica Camera AG Internet Management Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted March 1, 2007 Share #210 Posted March 1, 2007 Same here. Just went to the site and it's the old version 1.09 !!!! see: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/17451-firmware-v191-for-m8-available/?do=findComment&comment=186586'>More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted March 1, 2007 Share #211 Posted March 1, 2007 Opps, Leica just explained. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 1, 2007 Share #212 Posted March 1, 2007 I've gone back to 1.09. Had some strange things happen that never happened before. Like when turning the wheel to zoom in it would jump to all shots shown in the LCD. AWB is about the same in low light with longer exposure times. I'll wait for the official release of 1.10. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 1, 2007 Share #213 Posted March 1, 2007 Its always surprising to see how quick you people are!We put yesterday a less than perfect update online just ten minutes on the German homepage due to a content management system. As we saw it, we immediately reverted to the former version but a couple of you were quicker than we were! The people who download this "update" should please revert to the former version. We are still working on the real update for the M8. It will be advertised on the homepage in English also and I will announce it here too in order to avoid further confusion. Please accept our excuses for this short problem, JJ Viau Leica Camera AG Internet Management Thank you Mr. Viau, It is really appreciated that Leica has started to use this medium to communicate. Many of us have been wishing for this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 1, 2007 Share #214 Posted March 1, 2007 Its always surprising to see how quick you people are! That was nothing. The group who figured out how to tell when B&H is minutes away from putting new M8's into the "available" category so that they could order them online within the first minutes hold the record in this regard. I haven't had problems, and did see several improvements in the flawed release, but will revert to 1.09 before attempting to install any further new release. scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 1, 2007 Share #215 Posted March 1, 2007 I am having no problems at all with 1.091 and I will keep on with it until I do. I have a little 16mb SD card that came as a "Freebee" with some camera and I will keep 1.09 loaded on it, sitting in my Billingham, in case of a problem on the move. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 1, 2007 Share #216 Posted March 1, 2007 Sounds like a good idea Wilson. I will copy you. It appears Leica has gained themselves a new group of beta-testers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillBrittain Posted March 1, 2007 Share #217 Posted March 1, 2007 Having a shoot today, and wishing to use the M8 as much as possible, I've decided to go back to 1.09. It's not much of a confidence builder when the first prompt asks "Do you want to update the firmware 1.009" Surely Leica can afford to hire some competant QC people? While I acknowledge that developing firmware is challenging, keeping track of version numbers and only posting updates when they are ready is pretty simple. In any case, my brief experience with 1.091 was that the Auto-White Balance seemed much improved. I'm not sure I can say that the noise was better but I never had an issue with it in the first place. Coming from a Nikon, I'd say the noise is no issue and what noise is there is an attractive kind of noise. I'll be looking forward to the real release of the next firmware, whatever they call it (Bob?). It looks like they're making some kind of progress. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 1, 2007 Share #218 Posted March 1, 2007 Sounds like a good idea Wilson. I will copy you. Thinking about it, I think this might be a good idea anyway, to have a copy of the current firmware along with you. You just never know when it might save the day. In that it has cost me nothing, I will do it from now on. BTW, when I was going through the drawer where I keep all the bits and pieces, looking for a small SD card, I came across two items that Leica people might want or need. I have a LTM 39mm alloy body cap still in a plastic bag and possibly unused and a SmartMedia card for the original Digilux (circa 1998 - Fuji built). It is of a staggering 8 megabytes! I seem to recall the 64 megabyte one I bought in 1998 cost me about £150 - Gordon Moore's Law applies. Either of these would be free to any forum member - just P&P. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 1, 2007 Share #219 Posted March 1, 2007 Guys I can't edit that link so just ignore it for now. I am sending Allan a note to remove it which I tried to do myself but can't so just ignore it until a new version comes out Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 1, 2007 Share #220 Posted March 1, 2007 Guys I can't edit that link so just ignore it for now. I am sending Allan a note to remove it which I tried to do myself but can't so just ignore it until a new version comes out Don't worry Guy, nobody is blaming you... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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