The next Lecia M film camera

[thrid]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I haven't read the entire thread, but here are my two cents:

 

- Leica will continue to make film cameras, as long as they sell. Before they stopped production of analog bodies altogether, I think they would shift to producing them in batches, once or twice a year. Sort of like Rollei did/does with the Rolleiflex TLR.

 

- In recent interviews Leica has acknowledged that sales of film cameras have dropped, but are still economically viable.

 

- The M-series has seen 56 years of evolution and IMO there is very, very little that can be improved, without changing the camera dramatically.

 

I would like to see two changes to the current cameras.

 

- On the M7 I would like to see the addition of a small AE-Lock button on the back of the top plate, where your thumb rests. Right now the AE meter reading is lost once you take a shot. This would allow you to store that meter reading for multiple shots. While they are at it, they could add this feature to the M9 or allow this feature to be assigned to an existing button, as a custom function.

 

- Make the 1 meter frameline mask from the M9 available for the analog series. The current .7 meter mask that was introduced more than 20 years ago with the M6 does not frame very accurately at normal working distances (2.5 m - infinity). This is particularly problematic and noticeable with the 50/75/90/135. Leica used a 1 meter mask in the MP3 and it is a joy to shoot. These cameras frame as accurate, as the M3/M2/M4/M5/M4-2/M4-P and now the M9. A noticeable improvement.

 

It would cost Leica nothing to offer this option, since the mask has already been designed and is used in the M9. They would also make extra money from people upgrading their older cameras. I know I would have my M6/M7 updated....

[jpattison]

Why not an M9 shutter in an M7 body? It might make it slightly wider, but with 1/4000th I'd be happy!

 

John

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[hoppyman]

Plasticman I never said nor implied that you deliberately included an infected link.

I do object to the trouble it caused for some and the emotive and rude language that you have used here as well.

[earleygallery]

Why not an M9 shutter in an M7 body? It might make it slightly wider, but with 1/4000th I'd be happy!

 

John

 

As has been said, it is doubtful that there would be sufficient sales volume for this to be a profitable exercise for Leica. Think of the R&D and tooling costs to make a new film M body to accomodate the new shutter.....

[bill]

It's when someone has an image on an external site embedded like this...

 

Great tone, subject and creative use of vignetting...

 

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[bill]

Why not an M9 shutter in an M7 body? It might make it slightly wider, but with 1/4000th I'd be happy!

 

And noisier, more fragile, battery dependent... no thanks. The cloth shutter is one of the USPs for me.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Nikkor AIS]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I would appreciate a faster shutter speed of 1/4000 even 1/8000 as I often use fast glass , wide open in the light of the day. Having this shutter speed would allow me to use these lenes wide open with out B+W ND filters/polarizers. So that would be a plus. On other hand, I dont realish the idea of the metalic "shutter crack" and increased volume of a metal/titanium shutter. The whisper quite shutter is one thing Iv really become to appreciate in the leica M film camera's. Even with the Leica motor drive attached it's scarry how quite it is . Perhaps a camera like this could come (optional) that could offer a faster FPS than the current version. Not that Im complaining mind you. It just seems that such a well built camera as a Leica could take the riggers of a faster FPS. One advantage of the M system would seem to me is there isnt a mirror slapping up and down, just like the pelical mirrors of the camera 14 fps Canon F1 high speed.

While Im sure some people reading this post are groaning saying if you want to "spray and pray" get a Nikon/Canon. Look, I get the whole decisive moment deal , however it's somtimes usefull to use a motor drive to help tell the story with a sequence of photo's instead of only one.

 

 

Gregory

Edited June 28, 2010 by Nikkor AIS

[pico]

IMHO, the 'next' Leica M is the MP. To me, it represents the rugged camera with the meter I like but with the very least liability regarding electronics or battery failure.

 

A Leica M film cameras with more electrics than the M7 has would be a real tragedy, IMHO. It would break the long line of reasoned design. The M7 is just border-line unacceptably fragile.

 

Tell me - what liability would there be in having a swinging film loading door rather than the current bottom loading? Or something like the Nikon F with a removable back/bottom?

[SteveYork]

Leica will continue with analog cameras as long as people can still get their film processed. Processing will be the limiting factor. That's my feeling today.

[ndjambrose]

Like most others, I don't expect any further film cameras from Leica. I think production is stretched to breaking point already, and the next five years will be about evolving the S2 and M9 into future digital derivatives. I also think the MP will be the flasgship a la carte model for as long as there are parts, since it's the best heritage link with least competitors and most defensible product position. But I don't expect it to be produced in batches.

 

BTW - pretty much every feature mentioned in this thread that's been hoped for in a revised M7 already exists in the Zeiss Ikon, for those with broader horizons. I bought one out of interest and was very surprised. It's probably the best powered 35mm RF I've used, with many substantial improvements over the M7.

Edited June 28, 2010 by ndjambrose

[rob_x2004]

IMHO, the 'next' Leica M is the MP. To me, it represents the rugged camera with the meter I like but with the very least liability regarding electronics or battery failure.

 

A Leica M film cameras with more electrics than the M7 has would be a real tragedy, IMHO. It would break the long line of reasoned design. The M7 is just border-line unacceptably fragile.

 

Tell me - what liability would there be in having a swinging film loading door rather than the current bottom loading? Or something like the Nikon F with a removable back/bottom?

 

Unfortunately the rangefinder mechanism in the Ms are probably all the same now so the MP is just as fragile as an M7 or an M digital. Untill they revise the thing it is unlikely an MP will ever stand the same sort of abuse as the the early M line.

 

The bottom loading modern M is the fastest film change there is in a 35 camera. If it isnt for you then you arent doing it right.

 

It is about time they weather sealed the things and with minor detail revisions they could lock them up as tight as a fishes aahhhh but its Leica, lazy to the last it will never happen. Dream on I guess.

[thrid]

Unfortunately the rangefinder mechanism in the Ms are probably all the same now so the MP is just as fragile as an M7 or an M digital. Untill they revise the thing it is unlikely an MP will ever stand the same sort of abuse as the the early M line.

 

I've been shooting a mix of modern and older M bodies for about 12 years now (M2/M4/M6ttl/M7).

The cameras are out every day and used quite heavily. They don't travel in a Luigi case or heavily padded bag and show a good amount of wear.

 

In all that time I haven't noticed a big difference in reliability between the pre and post M6 bodies.

They have needed an equal amount of service, mostly due to self inflicted wounds (drops, bangs etc).

The biggest single dud was the M4-2, which racked up more problems than the other 5 bodies combined and has been retired.

 

So, I'm pretty confident in saying that the supposed superior reliability of the pre-M6 bodies is mostly a myth.

 

If anything one should keep in mind that the optical elements in the M3/M2 units are glued with Canadian balsam that degrades with time and can separate, if the camera receives a severe blow. Starting with the M4 Leica switched to a synthetic glue that is cured with UV light and is much stronger and resilient.

 

The bottom loading modern M is the fastest film change there is in a 35 camera. If it isnt for you then you arent doing it right.

 

I agree. I can load an M body much faster than any SLR. All it takes is a little practice.

 

It is about time they weather sealed the things and with minor detail revisions they could lock them up as tight as a fishes aahhhh but its Leica, lazy to the last it will never happen. Dream on I guess.

 

Weather sealing for the film bodies would be a nice touch, but considering that they survived Vietnam and everything in between I don't think it's such a critical issue. I've shot mine in some massive downpours and with some caution it's doable.

 

On the other hand it is absolutely inexcusable and laughable that the M8/M9 is not weather-sealed. I have no idea what they were drinking up in Solms, when they made that decision. The lack of sealing pretty much eliminates the M9 for most professional photojournalistic work, which supposedly is it's reason entrée .

[ndjambrose]

I agree. I can load an M body much faster than any SLR. All it takes is a little practice.

 

The first roll of film I loaded in my F6 took around 3 seconds from opening the back, loading a new roll, advancing to frame 1 and being ready to shoot. No practice needed at all. I haven't found any bottom loading camera that can get close, irrespective of familiarity.

 

Even without automatic loading, I can still load a ZI quicker than an MP - despite having put several hundred rolls though the MP and being pretty good at it.

 

I might turn the original comment around, and suggest that if anyone can't load a hinged back camera faster than a bottom loader then they're not doing it right. ;-)

[pico]

Loading any M is quick. Rewinding with the old stye rod defeats that advantage. So, an MP with the late model winder is good. I don't like adapters to do the same.

[thrid]

The first roll of film I loaded in my F6 took around 3 seconds from opening the back, loading a new roll, advancing to frame 1 and being ready to shoot. No practice needed at all. I haven't found any bottom loading camera that can get close, irrespective of familiarity.

 

Even without automatic loading, I can still load a ZI quicker than an MP - despite having put several hundred rolls though the MP and being pretty good at it.

 

I might turn the original comment around, and suggest that if anyone can't load a hinged back camera faster than a bottom loader then they're not doing it right. ;-)

 

Ok, let's say any manual SLR. Short of putting film in the camera, the F6 does the loading and threading. Not really the operator.

But I would love to see you load something like an F2, F3 or SL in 3 seconds.

 

The point is that the bottom loading isn't as big a hassle or as time consuming, as many people make it out to be. In exchange you get an extremely rigid body with nothing protruding on the sides.

 

You want's slow? Loading an LTM. Now that's a PIA.

Edited July 1, 2010 by thrid

[Nikkor AIS]

While Im getting better at loading the leica film camera I use on a daily bases. Im still "way" faster with a F3t and a MD-4 moterdrive. I open the back pull the last roll out and insert the film leader in the sprocket and light up the drive as Im closeing the back and droping the film cassete in the camera. I saw this tech done by a sports shooter at a Flames game several years ago. And have been aping him ever since . I can't imagine anyone doing it faster with an M camera. And than there is the issue of power rewind of the F3T with MD-4 which only takes about 4 seconds. While Im not doubting that someone can load a leica M faster . I just cant see how it could be done. Im just new to the Leica camera. Perhaps someone could post a U-tube link to this high speed film loading. I would love to know it's done so fast. Personally I think using more than one M body is the great equalizer when the blood gets pumping and shooting is fast and furious.

 

 

Gregory

[SteveYork]

"...Zeiss Ikon...I bought one out of interest and was very surprised. It's probably the best powered 35mm RF I've used, with many substantial improvements over the M7."

 

Sinner!!!!

 

The focusing patch on the M is much better. Things just snap into focus in a way the ZM lacks (from the one I fiddled with). And the two mechanical speeds on the M7 is unique. Otherwise, the Zeiss rocks. The eye relief on the ZM is so big.

 

But what really rocks in Zeissland is these old 50's cameras. They're built like rocks, and they're nice and small, and you can get them for 'a song and dance.' I digress.

[SteveYork]

There's not going to be any new film Ms from Leica. The demand isn't there anymore. The question is whether they keep making any film Ms. I suspect we'll see the end of the analog M sometime in this next decade. Enjoy them while you can.

[Nikkor AIS]

Hey Steve, I want to repect your take on there going to be another Leica Film camera.. Im just cruious where your getting your information that there isnt enough demand ?. Because by all accounts Leica is selling every film M they make. That sounds like pretty good demand if you ask me. Perhaps you have some inside information that Im not aware of?. If not your intitled to your opinion, but it's that. One voice in the crowd. I counter your view with a lecia long standing delopment of the M film system and that the film M system over many years. Like I said before in this thread, It wouldnt surprise me to know that the next Leica film M has already been reasearched and developed. From a marketing stand point it makes sense not to release this next Leica film camera right now so that the M9 message isnt watered down. I wouldnt be surprised that when the dust settles and supply catches up to demand that we this next Leica film camera's.

 

 

Gregory

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[pico]

There's not going to be any new film Ms from Leica. The demand isn't there anymore. The question is whether they keep making any film Ms. I suspect we'll see the end of the analog M sometime in this next decade. Enjoy them while you can.

 

Wow! You should filthy rich from your wildly accurate stock predictions!