Jump to content

The next Lecia M film camera


Nikkor AIS

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

It's sad that the thread was hijacked from the next film M to they've already stopped making the cameras. Thre are a lot of interesting and talented folks here and a subject worth speculation.

 

I would like to see a data back offered. Maybe even a film door instead of a bottom loader. With a motor drive, auto film loading, without an attached motor, manual loading. A tad smaller would be nice also.

 

It's just not going to happen.

 

The demand for film cameras is so low, these days, that R&D and retooling costs would never be paid back.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The profit margins on the Leica M9 must be huge compared to the film M Leica still makes.

Gregory

 

Gregory - lovely cameras and I've seen a lot of great shots that you've taken with (some of) them on the forum.

I think you're right in thinking that Leica are eager to keep customers on the mousewheel. Buying a beautiful and sturdy film camera that will last you a lifetime doesn't pay the bills in Solms. Buying a new digital unit every two years is more to the company accountants' liking (and they're running the show nowadays, of course).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest dk_samurai

In my opinion, if Leica were to keep the DNA of the film M camera, then there is no more room to be improved upon. You want lots of bells and whistles in a film camera? Sure, but then it wouldn't quite be an M camera any longer. The M7 is the most advanced, and I don't think Leica will spend more resources to improve upon this model.

 

What can then be improved upon? The á la carte program. Give us options to decide if our M7's should have the normal shutter dial, or the traditional shutter dial like the one found on the MP. Give us the option to put a rewind knob on the M7 (an MP looking camera, but with A-priority!). What about M3 frame windows on our MP's?

 

Film is not dead, but will likely not be improved upon. Okay, Kodak released Ektar and CV made a medium format RF camera, but besides that, what has been "new" in the past five years? Don't panic, film won't disappear, but on the same note don't expect something new to come along any minute.

 

Best regards,

David

 

 

 

910245446_TfXDW-L.jpg

 

Oh, this is just beautiful!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I very very much doubt a new Leica film body will be seen. It doesn't make economic sense (no, I'm not buying into the planned obsolescence argument) and if you do want one, there is a whole market of second-hand goods to be found. CV can get away with making 'new' film cameras because they have a management that is passionate about it and they know such retro chic sells in Japan.

People seem to apply a digital camera mentality to film cameras, like with, say, the Panasonic LX3. An excellent camera, but only after 6 months of it being out (and in very high demand) I met my first person who said "I don't like the screen, I'm waiting for the next one". GF1 comes out, same guy says "I don't like the high-ISO. I'm waiting for the next one." All the while, the world has passed by him.

All I can say is: stop waiting for the next one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I don't believe that rumour has any credibilty.

 

Last September for the M9 launch, Stefan Daniel said that demand for the M7 and MP for the Asian market continues and that Leica Camera cannot produce enough of them to meet the orders that they already have. He specifically mentioned Japan as the most advanced market that was yet the most traditional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As others have said, the 'ceased production' rumour is just that and almost certainly means something closer to 'temporarily stopped making units because we know we have enough stock in-hand'.

 

BUt the question of the next film M is more interesting. I can't quite imagine a scenario in which there will be one -- certainly not an entirely new 'species'. It seems to me that the film M has reached a kind of evolutionary end-game. Leica now has a near perfect mechanical rangefinder in the MP, and a near-perfect electronic camera in the M7. The two key market segments are catered for.

 

Perhaps (and a big 'perhaps') an MP7 -- an MP with AE; or an M7P -- an M7 with the build characteristics of the MP? BUt these, while interesting, would be simply evolutionary by-ways, marginal variants not new species...

Link to post
Share on other sites

"The profit margins on the Leica M9 must be huge compared to the film M Leica still makes".

 

You hit the nail on the head!

Traditionalists seem to be very satisfied with the MP. I have an M6 and what's to improve?

I have two M7's and can't for the life of me imagine what major changes Leica could made. My M7's wear Motor M's and they certainly are not unwieldy and other than Auto-Focus, are very fast. Ther simply is no market for incoroprating a Motor into a lighter M product and if the Motor M is too heavy, I have a Leicavit which is an excellent product in its own right.

I believe we have seen the last of any 'new' analog Leica M's, the MP and M7 will stay in the 'ala carte' program only. My last M7 was purchased from an Authorized US Leica Dealer new for $2200USD. It certainly didn't make sense to spend $5000USD+ for 'ala carte'.

I hope Leica sells lots of M9's(not to me) so they can repair my existing M's.-Dick

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think so. With all the machining tools and engineering cost already depreciated and very low after sale risks the profit could be better then with their digital conterparts.

 

Don't forget that the prices for the film cameras have been raised considerably since their first release.

 

Regards

Steve

 

"The profit margins on the Leica M9 must be huge compared to the film M Leica still makes".

Link to post
Share on other sites

"The profit margins on the Leica M9 must be huge compared to the film M Leica still makes."

 

They are such different products that a real comparision is almost impossible in real industrial terms... in pure time+materials can be true, but digital Ms are products that, globally, carry with them a lot of other "ancillary" costs that mechanical Ms have not to factor in: generally speaking, you have to manage product lifecycles that are completely different and warranty/support costs also with all another figure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest maddoc2003jp
I don't believe that rumour has any credibilty.

 

Last September for the M9 launch, Stefan Daniel said that demand for the M7 and MP for the Asian market continues and that Leica Camera cannot produce enough of them to meet the orders that they already have. He specifically mentioned Japan as the most advanced market that was yet the most traditional.

 

I am the person who brought up "the rumor" (over at RFF) and "teh rumor" has been published in one of the most important photography magazines, the Japanese Asahi-camera magazine, in the actual issue (June, 20th). There is a 5 page report about it, you can have a look yourself over at RFF. The translation of the Japanese key-word in the article means "discontinued".

 

Considering the article is a report about a talk recently hold by Dr. Kaufmann in Japan (there most important market) in front of the most important audience regarding cameras (JCII, May, 30th) and the importance of the magazine, I don't think it is just a "rumor"....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some clarification from Leica USA:

 

“Your questions comes timely, in fact just earlier this week I was in our factory where I saw the production of Leica’s M product lines. While we do not have a constant production of certain lenses and cameras, we have the ability to produce batches of those products. For example: Certain exotic lenses & cameras are produced in batches to be able to produce an economically feasible number of products.

In this case the M analog production line is just next to Leica’s M9 production line to which we have shifted our focus to better manage the backlog and reduce the wait for our customers.

As you might be well aware from the past, we have always stated that as long as it makes sense for Leica Camera AG to produce M analog cameras we will do so. At this time we are reaching our targeted numbers for M analog cameras and do well with the offering of Leica M a la Carte cameras. Just recently Leica Camera AG offered a special Leica M7 Hermes Camera. This camera was quickly sold out and is a sought after collectors camera.

At this time I have no indication that the Leica M analog cameras will be taken out of Leica’s product offering.”

 

 

See this URL for more:

 

 

 

 

Jim B.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

I don't think Leica has much margin on M9s, there is a lot of investment, in design.

 

They are selling MPs at 'silly' mug punter prices, with amortized or written off design costs, apart from the face lift to take a M6 classic to MP specification, the chassis is M7, so it is really a parts bin camera. What margin might they have donno.

 

They might go out of bus is the first conceivable option, no M10, remaindered spares, for M9 and M8... You can still get nice RD/1

 

Cosina are eating someone's lunch on the lens front.

 

Noel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking about the way film M cameras are made, I wonder, whether a discontinuation is necessary at all, since there is no "production line" which gets unsustainable, below a certain production rate. Leica can simply thin out the production batches, when demand is slowing down.

 

We might finally see an advantage being interested in a camera system, which is still made in a manufactory...

 

Stefan

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only improvement possible would be to add a 1/2000 top shutter speed.

 

I dont think it would work. They woudl have to go to a metal shutter. You already cant guarantee consistent exposure across the frame at a one thousandth with the accelerating decelerating cloth curtains.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only improvement possible would be to add a 1/2000 top shutter speed.

 

Would by fine, but I think they won't do it... there must be a reason for they never added 1/2000 even when they had money to invest into inside development of shutters (Leicaflex had 1/2000 about from the start) : difficult they afford a new mechanical cloth shutter just for the small numbers of film Ms... :o, and the digital ones have gone for all different technology.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...