X1 discussion thread (merged)

[Hektor6644]

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Hi:

 

I found some of the updated (and rumored) specs of the X1 here: (FT3) UPDATED-> Leica X1 specs?. This camera, if true, came out of left field. Look at the dimension comparison between the X1(X-1), the D-Lux 4 (DL4,) and the Panasonic GF1.

 

X-1 = 4.7” x 2.8” x 1.4” Weight = 448 g

DL4 = 4.3” x 2.3” x 1.1” Weight = 185 g

GF1 = 4.7” x 2.8” x 1.4” Weight = 285g

 

Same dimensions as the GF1, but made in Germany. The weight is also very significant. If true, it seems to support the rumored APS-C size sensor.

 

This is a very interesting camera. It never fails; I just got the D-Lux 4 and now this? It is like they knew! I’m waiting for 09/09/09 – just registered to hear the podcast live.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ramesses

[nhabedi]

I've got a hunch that the X1 may very well be THAT camera.

 

John, I fully agree with everything you've written about the X1 so far. It really looks like the camera many people have been waiting for. At least I have...

 

The digital camera money can't buy.

 

And I even expected Leica to deliver it...

 

I also agree with your "but" about the viewfinder. I still trust Leica that they will come up with a reasonable (maybe attachable) solution, though. Let's wait until Wednesday.

 

Those who claim that a camera with a 1/1.6'' sensor will be "better" for half the price are certainly not the ones Leica is targeting and they have no chance to ever have them as customers (except for a few who pay for a red dot on a Panasonic body).

 

Going into armchair CEO mode for a few seconds: The X1 is aimed at a segment of the market that so far has been largely ignored by the camera makers. The first company to see its potential was Sigma with their DP1/DP2 models. I've had them in my hands and while there's a great promise inherent in these cameras, they can't deliver. The way they are to be operated and thus "feel" simply doesn't cut it.

 

Then there's the whole mFT thing. Until recently - with only the G1 being available - it looked as if their only intent was to attack the dSLR market with the promise of providing smaller and less obtrusive cameras than the competition. The EP-1 and especially the GF-1 look different, though, no question. Still, coming back to "lock and feel", they are both very much typical Japanese digital cameras, even more so than the Sigmas.

 

Samsung has announced to release a small camera with a large sensor this year (and then postponed it to next year), but what they've shown so far looks similar in form and shape to the G1, i.e. yet another dSLR clone. There are rumors that Ricoh also wants to enter into this segment, but so far these are only rumors and we'll have to wait. Ricoh at least has a good track record of producing cameras with a well thought-out user interface, but it is very unlikely that they'll come up with something that matches the air of a real Leica.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is: To those who now complain that the X1 is completely off mark and that they wanted something entirely different from Leica - you won't buy it and Leica didn't expect you to buy it. You'll find another camera to be happy with. Whether Leica will find enough other persons who want to have the X1, they don't know and we don't know, we can only hope so. I certainly do.

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[nhabedi]

I found some of the updated (and rumored) specs of the X1 here: (FT3) UPDATED-> Leica X1 specs?.

 

These specs are clearly wrong.

[hexar]

One option I like very much on the RICOH and Oly EP-1 cameras is the electronic level function. Does anyone has a clue if LEICA would include this in the X1 ?

[Guest]

You have a point here. I think Leica did not want the X1 to be competition for the M line, so no interchangeable lenses. But a 35mm (or eq.FL) lens is actually a very useful, and maybe the most used FL of all Leica M lenses.

 

 

 

Let's pray it uses the same batteries as M8/M9, THAT would be a smart move.

 

ALL forums have superior intelligence per definition and people spending thousands on photo gear even more so.

Even more than before I guess LEICA has not only a very competent CEO but also top RD engineers. Probably there was only space for a smaller battery and so the X1 will come with a chager that serves X1 and M8&9 batteries, which is better designed than the Hama charger with interchangeable plates.

 

Can|t wait to see the X1 .

True Leica lovers will buy two, a black one because it|s invisble and chrome one because it is soo pretty. Girlfriend got a Digilux 4 for Christmas already, so here|s a dilemma!

[sandymc]

Just a thought;

 

It possible that the innards of the X1 are actually the Panasonic GF1. Size is the same. AKA this is a factor-of-2 crop camera. That is still consistent with the "same size as many DSLRs" comment.

 

Sandy

[stevelap]

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Just a thought;

 

It possible that the innards of the X1 are actually the Panasonic GF1. Size is the same. AKA this is a factor-of-2 crop camera. That is still consistent with the "same size as many DSLRs" comment.

 

Sandy

 

As I said earlier;) http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/97323-x1-discussion-thread-merged.html post no.8. I hope not though, M4/3rds sensor that is. Panasonic's Compact AF knowledge might be worth having though, as would their EVF technology (G1/GH1 rather than GF1) if that is what the X1 were to have. Panasonic seems to be ahead of the field with both of those systems at the moment.

Edited September 6, 2009 by stevelap

[Ecaton]

Hi:

 

I found some of the updated (and rumored) specs of the X1 here: (FT3) UPDATED-> Leica X1 specs?. This camera, if true, came out of left field. Look at the dimension comparison between the X1(X-1), the D-Lux 4 (DL4,) and the Panasonic GF1.

 

X-1 = 4.7” x 2.8” x 1.4” Weight = 448 g

DL4 = 4.3” x 2.3” x 1.1” Weight = 185 g

GF1 = 4.7” x 2.8” x 1.4” Weight = 285g

 

Same dimensions as the GF1, but made in Germany. The weight is also very significant. If true, it seems to support the rumored APS-C size sensor.

 

This is a very interesting camera. It never fails; I just got the D-Lux 4 and now this? It is like they knew! I’m waiting for 09/09/09 – just registered to hear the podcast live.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ramesses

 

I guess the GF1 weight is "body only", whereas the X1 includes Leica glas!

[stevelap]

Although the hints and leaks point to an APS sized sensor, Leica do have an existing alliance with Panasonic of course. If otherwise, I wonder where the APS sensor might have been sourced. From Kodak, a new alliance (I don't know, Samsung and the NX10?) or bought in from another sensor supplier?

[J Mitchum]

Hi:

 

I found some of the updated (and rumored) specs of the X1 here: (FT3) UPDATED-> Leica X1 specs?. This camera, if true, came out of left field. Look at the dimension comparison between the X1(X-1), the D-Lux 4 (DL4,) and the Panasonic GF1.

 

X-1 = 4.7” x 2.8” x 1.4” Weight = 448 g

DL4 = 4.3” x 2.3” x 1.1” Weight = 185 g

GF1 = 4.7” x 2.8” x 1.4” Weight = 285g

 

Same dimensions as the GF1, but made in Germany. The weight is also very significant. If true, it seems to support the rumored APS-C size sensor.

 

This is a very interesting camera. It never fails; I just got the D-Lux 4 and now this? It is like they knew! I’m waiting for 09/09/09 – just registered to hear the podcast live.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ramesses

 

Those specs are incorrect. Someone just copied the specs over from the GF1. They even have both the GF1 and X1 listed as 119 × 71 × 36.3mm and 448g. Not true in the slightest. They are totally different cameras. That website posts every rumor they come across.

[J Mitchum]

I guess the GF1 weight is "body only", whereas the X1 includes Leica glas!

 

No. The GF1 weights 448g with lens and 285g without. Those specs were proven false for the X1. The X1 is a totally different camera.

[hexar]

mit einem 4/3 sensor wurde die 24mm elmarit sich als 48 mm lense verhalten. Fuer mich nicht gut . 36mm wurde mich zu kaufen bringen. (also 1.5 cropfactor und nich 2.0)

[nhabedi]

I did some very lame measurements (so take this with a grain of salt) based on the pictures in the leaked brochure and assuming that the three pictures of the M9, X1, and D-Lux 4 there are in scale. The result is that the X1 will probably be between 10 and 20mm wider than the GF1 and the EP-1 (which are very similar in size) while both these 4/3 cameras will be 5 to 10mm higher than the X1.

 

That'd be fine with me. It's an interesting new form factor which alludes to the classical pre-war Leicas and judging from this one tiny photo the camera could be a beauty. Did I mention that I'm excited?

[MPJMP]

I am wondering if Leica read my thread from 25th Jan 2009...?

 

"Digital CM - reboot"

 

here is the link - http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/76096-digital-cm-reboot.html

 

They delivered on the sensor size, camera size but not the viewfinder. What about the recommendation of a matched pair of clip on lenses?

 

The Leica Minilux and CM sold in big numbers (I had a CM) and no one complained about the lack of zoom or fixed lens. The fixed lens compacts always seem to deliver an IQ that was astounding considering the size of the instrument. I have some enlargements from the CM that are amazing - the optics are great. I suspect its easier to design a fixed lens compact with great IQ than a removable lens one.

 

A lot of people have asked for a cheaper entry into a real Leica digital, some things have to yield to make it affordable and OVF was it for the X1.

 

Yep, this sort of camera has been missing from Leica's product line-up ever since the CM was discontinued. I myself was an avid minilux user for several years. It was my introduction into the world of Leica. And it was a "real" Leica, in the sense that it had a great piece of glass on the front (a fixed 40mm- I never complained) and the images had that "Leica look" to them. I'm sorry, but as nice as the D-Lux 4 is I have never thought of it as a "real" Leica. You can buy the Panasonic LX3, save some money, and your pictures will look the same. Leica has needed for some time now a unique compact digicam of their own design that would not be a direct competitor with an otherwise identical, cheaper alternative, and I suspect the X1 is it.

 

Most Leica enthusiasts want similar things in their camera. A fixed prime lens in the 35-40mm FOV is what one would expect on a camera such as this from Leica. A zoom would have been a big mistake, IMO. Leica people don't want zoom lenses. We want the best, no-compromise prime we can get. And since all Leica people want a viewfinder of some variety, I have no doubt an accessory optical VF is in the works and will provide a vastly larger and brighter view to any integral VF they could have squeezed into an already tight, compact body design.

 

Most "serious" compacts available today have the ability to set manual focus. The ability to set zone focus shouldn't be a problem.

 

Once again, for me at least, the deciding factors will be price (under US$2K please) and handling speed. I don't expect it to be as fast as an M8/9, but if it's slow as molasses I might have to pass.

[meatboy]

Once again, for me at least, the deciding factors will be price (under US$2K please) and handling speed

 

I agree, this is so important, any more $$ and you are getting into used M8 price territory.

[c6gowin]

I am confident the X1 sensor is larger than m4/3. I bet its a 1.5 or 1.6 APS-C size sensor. Can't wait until Wednesday to get more details. I sure hope this thing is real.

[fuchs]

Using the hotshoe as a reference point it appears the X1 will be about the same size as the Sigma DP1/DP2 but 1/2 inch wider, 1/4 thicker and maybe about the same height or perhaps 1/8 inch less. I think it is a lot smaller than people realize.

 

Yes, despite the brochure talking about Leica M resemblance, I rather see the X1 in the LTM - Barnak Leicas size league.

[Hektor6644]

Hi Ecaton an J Mitchum:

 

Thanks for your responses.

 

I agree. The specs did not make any sense to me, but they were so detailed. I hope that the X1 is bigger than the M4/3 cameras with EVF. If the latter is true, and the EVF is reliable, we are witnessing, imho, the return of the rangefinders (or ERF – Electronic Rangefinders) with a vengeance.

 

The X1 with an APS-C type of sensor and a fixed 24mm f/2.8 (~ 35mm) would give me not only a challenge but also a headache. I have no idea what to do. Firstly, I do have the D700 and the Zeiss Distagon ZF 35mm, but F/2. Secondly, my D-Lux 4 is f/2-f/2.8 and 24mm-60mm with a tiny sensor. However, I love the “baby Leica.” It is with me all the time. Lastly, I also have the D300 which is my de facto 1.5X Teleconverter without losing a stop. In addition, I have three DX lenses. It is highly unlikely that I will get a fourth camera, but this one is very tempting and I’m dying to get a true Leica. It all depends on the true specs, size, EVF or not, and the price.

 

Have no doubt, if I had the money, I would get the M9 and three to four lenses. The rumored X-1 might not be the optimum camera but it could be affordable, without the headaches of the RF, and with the Leica quality. You cannot have everything in life.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ramesses

Edited September 6, 2009 by Ramesses

[Hektor6644]

Yes, despite the brochure talking about Leica M resemblance, I rather see the X1 in the LTM - Barnak Leicas size league.

 

Hi Ed:

 

I have no idea what the LTM - Barnak Leicas are and their sizes. Can you give me hint or draw comparison to other cameras like the V-Lux, C-lux, etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Ramesses

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[AlanG]

Why a fixed f2.8 lens when the GF-1 gives a choice of a compact F1.7 prime lens, zooms and many other lenses? (Including making M 35 and 50 1.4 and f2 lenses into nice fast portrait lenses.)

 

I think an "X2" with a fixed and dust-proof 24-70 equivalent (and zoom optical viewfinder) is the camera that lots of photo journalists (and others) would like. Surely such a model would impact M sales but they'd also sell a lot of them. As it stands, the GF-1 is likely to be the leader in this segment until something better comes along.