what is this cr*p

[charlesphoto99]

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Then don't buy anything from them, buy something from someone else and stop beating yourself up. You'll feel better, we'll feel better, and the sun will still rise in the morning.

 

My sentiments exactly....

[jaapv]

Come on, Jaap. I've never before seen you descend to an ad hominem response like that. You always seem to be the guy who takes the trouble to do his homework. I know you'll defend the M8 to the death no matter how many glaring problems it displays, but you've always used rational arguments to do that. I disagree with a lot of those arguments, but I disagree because I think you're wrong on the issues themselves, not because I think you're dishonest or stupid.

 

When did the M8 come out? It's been a long time now and people with M8s are still living with the camera's problems. Yes, they live with them and make excuses for them, but the problems are still there. Worse yet, Leica's still selling the same unreliable camera after all this time. Now we're calling it the M8.2, but it's the same camera with the same problems its predecessor had. I don't think pointing that out is rubbish.

 

i don't think that poster is pointing it out. He is either trolling or displaying his ignorance...

I'll happily argue compromises, but basic facts that neccesitate those compromises are inarguable.

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[dm1127]

it would be better if everyone started to embrace the flaws and aberrations in photographic technology. perfect is not perfect, it's sterile.

 

use the idiosyncrasies to your advantage. make a statement with your photography and experiment with what certain combinations of equipment give you.

 

if you want a completely sterile image, use equipment that is designed and made to be as close to perfect as possible.

 

perfect is the enemy of good.

[sdai]

You guys need to take a look at the photos in Erwin Puts' 18 Elmar test reports ... that is nasty, for the money you spent on a Cosina, there's really no reason to complain.

 

 

[charlesphoto99]

Better yet, save your $ and get a Zeiss 18mm (pic seen here with a Milich coded bayonet and a B&W UV/IR filter coded as a 21).

 

Hasn't let me down yet and cost me under a grand used.

 

But yeah, not sure why some people want to make the M8 a fit all camera. The film M's never were - why should the 8 be? It's for reportage style imagery. Architecture, sports, etc are much better served by other systems.

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[jrc]

I can understand that for some photographers the magenta shift of some materials could be an issue but IMHO it is a rather overblown problem to which there is in most cases a workable solution.

 

Actually, no, there is no workable solution other than the filters, and no, it's not an overblown problem, it was an awful problem -- I mentioned the guy who shot an orchestra full of people in magenta (black) tuxes, which is not an easily fixed problem. You go into photoshop and select magenta and replace it with black, and everything magenta -- like the bunting around the stage, and women in magenta dresses -- suddenly goes black. And you don't *know* which is which. We had all kinds of funny shots being posted, like a woman in a black ski jacket standing next to a woman in a magenta ski jacket -- magenta was (and I guess still is) a somewhat fashionable color -- and they're both magenta. Or you have a black car and a guy looking tough in a black jacket, but now it's a black car and a magenta jacket...to say nothing of the Green Blobs and the streaking and the light explosion when the light is on the rim of the sensor...all of this was a BIG problem.

 

I like shooting with rangefinders, I have an M7 and an M8 and an RD1, but if I wasn't still holding out hope for a M9, I'd probably leave Leica behind. I do have some faith that the M9 will be better. IF there's an M9. However, I'm not really sure that they'll be able to go full frame, so we may still have a 1.3x sensor, though that's all right with me. It's NOT all right with some people, though, and I wonder if Leica is straining to find ways to go FF... I'm not sure they have the culture to do that kind of research. Although I supposed Kodak must...

 

JC

[Sandokan]

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What a long post ... must be a few upset people out there.

 

1. Why isnt this on a Cosina-Voigtländer forum, as it seems to be a CV15 problem that started this. Nothing to do with Leica even if you use this lens on a M8. If you have this problem on a M1-7 but not on a Voigtländer or Zeiss camera, then something needs to be fixed by Leica.

 

2. As Carsten says - BEFORE screaming something is cr*p, please do some homework (also called due digilance) - especially for those that claim to be a professional and not a dilettante.

 

3. As Jaap says - "this post is rubbish" (and that goes for quite a few of the posts here, which are more of a rant than any useful information).

 

4. Why are so many people so happy to crow about Leica's mistake? If my memory serves, wasnt there a problem with Canon's top of the line camera and from other manufacturers when releasing new products?

 

Yes, I am a M8 owner and very happy with it - I can do normal photography and if I so desire, I can also do IR photography ... what other camera allows this?

 

Ravi

[marcusperkins]

What a long post ... must be a few upset people out there.

 

1. Why isnt this on a Cosina-Voigtländer forum, as it seems to be a CV15 problem that started this. Nothing to do with Leica even if you use this lens on a M8. If you have this problem on a M1-7 but not on a Voigtländer or Zeiss camera, then something needs to be fixed by Leica.

 

2. As Carsten says - BEFORE screaming something is cr*p, please do some homework (also called due digilance) - especially for those that claim to be a professional and not a dilettante.

 

3. As Jaap says - "this post is rubbish" (and that goes for quite a few of the posts here, which are more of a rant than any useful information).

 

4. Why are so many people so happy to crow about Leica's mistake? If my memory serves, wasnt there a problem with Canon's top of the line camera and from other manufacturers when releasing new products?

 

Yes, I am a M8 owner and very happy with it - I can do normal photography and if I so desire, I can also do IR photography ... what other camera allows this?

 

Ravi

 

It is a big problem. I did a job in Congo recently, fully aware of the 'black into magenta' issue. I've never liked using filters, and for this job I felt there was no need to use them simply because if somebody's shirt or hat etc turned magenta it just would not be an issue.

 

What I hadn't realised was how in the midday sun (and particularly in Africa for some reason) the foliage turned to a rather sickly yellow! It ruined a lot of the images, the pictures just looked wrong, and very difficult to correct. It was not easy to see on the screen at the time (difficult to see anything on the screen in the sun, and I don't generally look back over the picture in the evenings)

 

So instead of rich greens, I've got sickly yellows. It was a big big problem. A disaster actually.

[carstenw]

Yes, but a little testing and reading would have avoided that too.

 

So here is a tip for everyone:

 

- ALWAYS use the IR filters.

- If it isn't a Leica lens, figure out how to cure the colour shift in the corners.

- If there are strong lights in the scene and light bounce off the backside of the filter would ruin your shot, use another camera.

 

I love my little M8, but I am very aware that it is not perfect. When nothing extra goes wrong (the vast majority of the time), it delivers great photos.

[stunsworth]

You guys need to take a look at the photos in Erwin Puts' 18 Elmar test reports ... that is nasty, for the money you spent on a Cosina, there's really no reason to complain

 

I noticed that too when I read the original review. All he's done is use the lens without a filter but with lens detection switched on. Nothing to worry about at all.

 

I made the same mistake when I borrowed a sample of the lens a few weeks ago.

[dpattinson]

It is a big problem. I did a job in Congo recently, fully aware of the 'black into magenta' issue. I've never liked using filters, and for this job I felt there was no need to use them simply because if somebody's shirt or hat etc turned magenta it just would not be an issue.

 

What I hadn't realised was how in the midday sun (and particularly in Africa for some reason) the foliage turned to a rather sickly yellow! It ruined a lot of the images, the pictures just looked wrong, and very difficult to correct. It was not easy to see on the screen at the time (difficult to see anything on the screen in the sun, and I don't generally look back over the picture in the evenings)

 

So instead of rich greens, I've got sickly yellows. It was a big big problem. A disaster actually.

 

To be fair, it's probably better characterized as a big mistake. Leaving the filters off that is.

 

A couple of years ago - it was a big problem, before Leica had sorted it out with filters. Now the big problem is blue dots from internal reflection from the filters, and cyan vignetting with uncoded or third party lenses.

[jaapv]

To be fair, this is at least in part Leica's fault. Like many others they tend to emphasise purple fabrics, happily ignoring the fact that IR shifts colours all over the place.

[Sandokan]

It is a big problem. I did a job in Congo recently, fully aware of the 'black into magenta' issue. I've never liked using filters, and for this job I felt there was no need to use them simply because if somebody's shirt or hat etc turned magenta it just would not be an issue.

 

What I hadn't realised was how in the midday sun (and particularly in Africa for some reason) the foliage turned to a rather sickly yellow! It ruined a lot of the images, the pictures just looked wrong, and very difficult to correct. It was not easy to see on the screen at the time (difficult to see anything on the screen in the sun, and I don't generally look back over the picture in the evenings)

 

So instead of rich greens, I've got sickly yellows. It was a big big problem. A disaster actually.

 

I also didnt know about the green foliage - but in hindsight it is obvious as leaves go white when using an IR passing (visible blocking) filter that they are sources of IR in daylight.

 

Anyway, PS can fix anything if you have the time...

[jaapv]

Yes Ravi, anything with Chlorophil in it and Caucasian skintones, and anything red, and many other things. Purple blacks are the easiest to fix, the rest of the image is the real problem....

[tofsla]

There we go again. First of all I am very happy M8 owner with probably over 12 Leica lenses and not a single UV/IR filter EVER... Do not shot color! M8 is perfect B&W camera. The best B&W digital camera ever made with perfect JPG, great film like grain at high ISO, and it also can do colors sometimes (as free added benefit!)

 

And I think, Leica new about IR issues when they introduce M8, but they could care less, bcs it was general thinking that most people will use it as B&W digital. Use it as it was intended to be used - B&W digital and enjoy every day of it!

[marcusperkins]

Yes, but a little testing and reading would have avoided that too.

 

So here is a tip for everyone:

 

- ALWAYS use the IR filters.

- If it isn't a Leica lens, figure out how to cure the colour shift in the corners.

- If there are strong lights in the scene and light bounce off the backside of the filter would ruin your shot, use another camera.

 

I love my little M8, but I am very aware that it is not perfect. When nothing extra goes wrong (the vast majority of the time), it delivers great photos.

 

Actually I had tested for greens, and was reasonably happy with the results. However, what I couldn't test for was (for whatever reason) the effect it would have on certain types of foliage in different parts of the world.

 

At the moment, the majority of people (not necessarily on this forum) think it only affects certain black materials - it affects more.

 

Leica do NOT make a big enough deal of filter use - when it is actually essential. This should be made absolutely clear on page one of the manual, and prominently on the M8 section of Leica's website.

 

Whether Leica knew of the IR problems at launch is no longer an issue. However, they know of it now, but still underplay it. And that is plain wrong, and unforgivable for an expensive professional camera.

 

Fact is people are still buying the M8, and getting caught out by the colour issue.

[charlesphoto99]

I always used a UV filter in the film days as protection anyway (they are very expensive lenses - I would esp use filters if traveling to Africa, film or digital!), so beyond the cost using a filter is no big deal.

 

Even if I was to shoot only B&W I would still use a filter though as you are starting with a color original and the original colors will affect your contrast, etc in the b&w conversion. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[plasticman]

I've been pretty critical of the M8 the last couple years. I still hope for greater reliability and I'd also like a better compression algorithm for dng files (another topic altogether really). But the surprising thing for me is how nice the files actually are, when the camera is used with as much thought as a film camera.

Where Leica really should try to put things right imho, is in being able to input lens identity through the menu. Causing inconvenience and extra cost to your customers to solve this problem is not really the optimal solution.

[dcoombs]

...But the surprising thing for me is how nice the files actually are, when the camera is used with as much thought as a film camera.

Where Leica really should try to put things right imho, is in being able to input lens identity through the menu....

 

Couldn't agree more. For me my M8 works fine, and I love the results I get. The one thing I wish for is the ability to input the lens specs manually, though, at least for my older Leica lenses. That would save me the effort and expense of sending them in for coding.

 

Doug

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[tofsla]

Couldn't agree more. For me my M8 works fine, and I love the results I get. The one thing I wish for is the ability to input the lens specs manually, though, at least for my older Leica lenses. That would save me the effort and expense of sending them in for coding.

 

Doug

 

 

Almost all (except summarits that come 6-bit coded) my lenses are uncoded (as I mentioned I shot B&W only and don't use UV/IR). However I like to save lens information in EXIF data. I use this little toolExifTool by Phil Harvey to process all JPG and DNG files. For example for 35mm f1.4 ASPH i run it "exiftool -overwrite_original -Lens="35.0 mm f/1.4" -LensType="35mm f/1.4 ASPH" -FocalLength="35.0 mm" -FocalLengthIn35mmFormat="47 mm" *.*" and its all gets done and look just fine.