I love my… I love my M4-P !!

[Tom R]

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21 hours ago, bags27 said:

My M4-P stopped shooting 36 frame rolls at around 20 frames. My repairman fixed it along with a complete CLA, reporting the following, that may or not be of help to you:

The winding problem you experienced before was caused by the brass sleeve built into the chassis for the third intermediate gear worn.  The camera winds well without film pressure inside.  With film inside, when goes to high numbers, the film pressure may cause the winding could not finish the entire cycle due to the brass sleeve wear.  The brass sleeve was pressed into the chassis during manufacture, cannot be replaced.  I tried to replace winding main gear and first intermediate gear into new parts, nothing helped.  But I put a 36 roll blank film into the camera, made sure loading film properly, tested the entire roll from the beginning to the end, the camera just worked fine without problem.  So you need to make sure load film properly.  Also in case you experience winding problem, back out the winding lever a little then push forward, this will make the camera winding finish the entire cycle and enable shutter work properly.

 

Thank you very much for this information. This particular camera body has no problem advancing the film; it completely advances and rewinds 36 exposure rolls. It's just that very once in a while, I get a perfectly blank exposure(s). Vexing, no?

[Ouroboros]

6 weeks in and a dozen rolls of film later with this M4-P and it’s growing on me.
 

 The exposures and frame spacing are consistent and its shooting actions are reassuringly smooth.  It’s not as classy looking as my black MP to my eye, but it’s different enough in both looks and feel to add a bit of variety to my Leica film camera options.

 I don’t like the ‘Leitz’ script or the red dot and I prefer the frame selector lever, wind-on lever and rewind knob of my MP.
 

As an alternative to buying a new M-A as a second, meterless film M as I was planning to do, buying the M4-P has saved me about £3k and that’s a strong argument in it’s favour.  

Not a bad little camera, I don’t know why these seem to sell for considerably less than some other film M’s such as the M6, but the M4-P gives nothing away in quality of manufacture.

Seems to be a bargain compared to a used M6 and has none of the associated electrical circuit concerns, either.

 

 

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[Tom R]

7 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

6 weeks in and a dozen rolls of film later with this M4-P and it’s growing on me.
 

 The exposures and frame spacing are consistent and its shooting actions are reassuringly smooth.  It’s not as classy looking as my black MP to my eye, but it’s different enough in both looks and feel to add a bit of variety to my Leica film camera options.

 I don’t like the ‘Leitz’ script or the red dot and I prefer the frame selector lever, wind-on lever and rewind knob of my MP.
 

As an alternative to buying a new M-A as a second, meterless film M as I was planning to do, buying the M4-P has saved me about £3k and that’s a strong argument in it’s favour.  

Not a bad little camera, I don’t know why these seem to sell for considerably less than some other film M’s such as the M6, but the M4-P gives nothing away in quality of manufacture.

Seems to be a bargain compared to a used M6 and has none of the associated electrical circuit concerns, either.

 

 

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Good to hear that all is in working condition. I've used two M4-Ps for about twenty years--again with very few issues. The most expensive repair I've had on one M4-P was the most recent which required replacing the master roller, after replacing the small curtain. The combined cost of these repairs is still much less than the difference in cost to replace the M4-P with an M6, MA or MP. The "good news," however, is that this is basically a new camera in an old body ... I kind of relate to that.

Re: the putative quality differences between the Canadian models, i.e., the M4-P and M4-2 cameras, I have asked several technicians about this and their responses have been pretty consistent: these bodies were designed in response to the financial problems arising out of the release of the M4--they were intended to reduce costs (and some say to enhance durability). In so doing, stainless steel gears were used to replace the original brass elements (used in all M bodies up to the M4 .... don't know anything about the internal components of the M6, M-A or MP). The steel sounds (and perhaps "feels") different and this might explain some of the negative comments. Other substitutions were made in the construction as well, but I do not recall these specifics. I'm sure that numerous contributors to this forum will be able to provide more details.

At the end of the day, these are clearly well-designed working machines---cosmetics and back-story notwithstanding. Shoots lots of film and have lots of fun.

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, Tom R said:

Good to hear that all is in working condition. I've used two M4-Ps for about twenty years--again with very few issues. The most expensive repair I've had on one M4-P was the most recent which required replacing the master roller, after replacing the small curtain. The combined cost of these repairs is still much less than the difference in cost to replace the M4-P with an M6, MA or MP. The "good news," however, is that this is basically a new camera in an old body ... I kind of relate to that.

Re: the putative quality differences between the Canadian models, i.e., the M4-P and M4-2 cameras, I have asked several technicians about this and their responses have been pretty consistent: these bodies were designed in response to the financial problems arising out of the release of the M4--they were intended to reduce costs (and some say to enhance durability). In so doing, stainless steel gears were used to replace the original brass elements (used in all M bodies up to the M4 .... don't know anything about the internal components of the M6, M-A or MP). The steel sounds (and perhaps "feels") different and this might explain some of the negative comments. Other substitutions were made in the construction as well, but I do not recall these specifics. I'm sure that numerous contributors to this forum will be able to provide more details.

At the end of the day, these are clearly well-designed working machines---cosmetics and back-story notwithstanding. Shoots lots of film and have lots of fun.

The shutter sounds much more metallic than my MP shutter.  The angled rewind crank is more efficient and is considerably faster to in use than the MP but I still prefer the MP's rewind knob, aesthetically and operationally.  

The articulated plastic-tipped wind-on lever has a different, two stage feel to the traditional one-piece lever of the MP and to me, possibly as an MP user for the past 18 years, it seems unnecessary.  Why complicate a component that is so functionally simple and does not need the addition of an articulating plastic tip which has the potential to break?  It's one of those things that I can live with but will remain as a minor irritation unless I eventually change the lever for a traditional one-piece version.  It's an easy replacement and I'll probably do it. 

 

 

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Edited September 10, 2023 by Ouroboros

[Rchrdlrx]

Being a newbie to the Leica M world and having not long bought a M4-P brass top version, excuse my questioning! How do you tell it’s a black chrome version other than it’s black? 
 

I said I was a newbie so go easy on me please, plus other newbie M owners might be reading this post and wanting to know the answer, just didn’t have the nerve or cluelessness to ask!

 

 

[a.noctilux]

30 minutes ago, Rchrdlrx said:

How do you tell it’s a black chrome version other than it’s black? 

Very simple in M4-P.

Same thing Black Chrome or just Black.

The other Black type is BP or Black Paint in other Ms than M4-2/M4-P

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M4-2

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M4-P

...

out of topic

Plenty colors/finishes with MP

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/MP

for example, MP...Order nos. - 10301-Silver, 10302-black, 10305-chrom-0.85, 10307-Hermes Edition, 10312-LHSA-hammertone'68-03, 10317-black Classic, 10120 LSHA (black paint), 10121 LSHA (chrome), 10316-anthracite, 10311-MP 6 (black paint 0.72),

etc.

[Rchrdlrx]

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Thank you for clearing this matter up and providing all the information needed.

There is a lot to learn and know!

[Topsy]

Here's mine.

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[edstock]

I entered the M4-P world via my chrome Leica which was made to celebrate 70 years 1913-1983. The serial number begins with an "l ". I use mine with a VC II meter.

[a.noctilux]

19 hours ago, edstock said:

...70 years 1913-1983. The serial number begins with an "l "

Not the serial number, I'd say Limited secondary serial number.

This will be L.E.I.C.A one of these letter followed by number 001 to 500

Real M4-P serial number is engraved on the hot-shoe rim.

as side note ...

Many years back,

@edstock you created this thread

I read it with great interest...

...

Nice read in this thread M4-P 1913-1983

 

[alphonse2501]

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[jnero]

I bought my M4-P many years ago and it often accompanies me on trips. It still works perfectly in all respects. I don't think a CLA is necessary yet. I made it a little more noticeable on the outside so that it would be less noticeable when taking photos. 😉 Hardcore Leica lovers have to be very strong now.

 

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Edited April 11 by jnero