Best Resolution? M10R+50mm f2 APO vs M11P+50mm f2 v5?

[Dazzajl]

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I bought my Leica gear to get away from optical perfection and create images that moved me, so I completely get all the talk of 'just make images' or 'Shoot with what you have and enjoy'. The OP did ask about pure resolution and to exclude all the other aspects of the image and as such, it's all about glass. If you want the cleanest and best detail possible, spend on the glass. Then if you still want to chase a little more, upgrade the body too at some point.

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[lct]

Depends on aperture i guess. At f/11, i feel hard to tell a difference between my 50/2 v5 and 50/2 apo. At f/2, the apo is the winner, as far as resolution is concerned, but i prefer the gentler rendering of the v5. Matter of taste as usual.

[Robert Blanko]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Al Brown:

It is all just GAS. Just go and shoot with whatever you have until the first person says "hey bruh, this surely does not look like M11/50 APO (pick one), you should totally get that to brutally elevate your style/sharpness/contrast/3D pop/separation and fulfill your inner desires of becoming a better photographer..."
When you do find such a person/editor/peer/opinion leader/wife/colleague/mistress/forum member or they find you it will be time to upgrade.

Hey Bro, your list sucks - the most important aspect is bokeh, isn’t it?

[Stevejack]

On 1/10/2025 at 11:27 AM, m410 said:

My single criteria is resolution or image detail.  I am not concerned with different lens speeds or weight.

The 50mm APO is good lens but your existing lens in no slouch, and while the resolution differences between the lenses are certainly there I don't think the difference is comparable to the switch between sensors. If your single criteria is purely resolution / image detail, then you're probably getting more out of an M10-R to M11 switch (it's a ~ 47% increase in resolution). That increased resolution will absolutely be noticeable using your existing lens, whereas you're not going to get that kind of percentage improvement moving from your current 50mm to the APO. 

[Jon Warwick]

The v5 has a lot of field curvature; the 50 APO doesn’t. I find that makes a noticeable difference to (say) distant landscapes at the edges of the frame, in favour of the APO. For many other things, the v5 is a fine lens on the M11, with gentler rendering than the APO.

Personally, I have an M11, v5, and a 50mm APO Lanthar (the last as a very close proxy to the 50mm APO Summicron, in terms of image quality, but not size of the lens).

[JNK100]

This doesn't need to be so complicated.

Find a friendly dealer and take some test shots with both your options to make your decision.

[Photoworks]

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On 1/9/2025 at 10:27 PM, m410 said:

Happy New Year!

Currently I have a M10R with a 50mm f2 Summicron v5.  I am considering a change to pickup some resolution/detail when a 50mm focal length is best for my subject.  

My question is regarding which configuration will capture the best/most detail?  

1. Should I keep my M10R and switch to the current 50mm f2 APO Summicron?  OR keep my 50mm f2 Summicron v5 and switch to the current M11P?

2. Does anyone know a mathematical solution that might guide me to a decision?

3. Anyone have a personal experience with my question?

My single criteria is resolution or image detail.  I am not concerned with different lens speeds or weight.

Thanks for any guidance.

David

note: my other lenses are all Leica with focal lengths/apertures of 21mm f3.4, 28mm f2.8, 35mm f2, 90mm f4 and 135mm f4.

The real question is, what F-stop do you like to shoot? I am asking because you may see a difference at f2-f4. Once you pass f5-6, the differences are quite minimal in sharpness, but bokeh is still different.

50 cron is a good lens, to me it is a good lens, but not exciting! I prefer something with a bit of character wide open and sharp when closed down. for this reason, I use the Summilux 50.

The apo 50 is very high constant and micro contrast, giving you an appearance of more details wide open. It is for sure an impressive lens, you can see here wide open on the M10M

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To me, the APO lens has better application for landscape, and it is not so kind to people's faces. 
The background is quite busy and overly texturized.

in conclusion, I would suggest the M11, as you can get benefits from all the lenses you have already, and if you feel a need for APO, you can get the Lanthar for a good price.

[Photoworks]

you can find some more infos here about the camera

 

[SrMi]

55 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

you can find some more infos here about the camera

 

After a brief look at the summary, the comparison seems flawed as he compared them at the native instead of the same resolution

[jgeenen]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb _tc:

M10-r pixel pitch: 4.57um ~= 109 max resolution

M11: 3.59 ~= 132 lp/mm max resolution

So, this is a much more modest 21% increase.

To complete the picture: A 24 Mpix sensor ends up with about 83 lpm (to be fair: all numbers will be actually lower, if one takes the Bayer filter color sampling algorithm into account). If you look at the MTF curves that reveal notable differences between the lenses' resolution already on 10 lp/mm level, every Leica sensor is good enough to record and show the differences.

BTW: In case you want to dive into lens measurement a bit further, Zeiss has published some valuable documents years ago that are still available online: https://lenspire.zeiss.com/photo/en/article/overview-of-zeiss-camera-lenses-technical-articles

Edited January 11 by jgeenen

[setuporg]

8 hours ago, JNK100 said:

This doesn't need to be so complicated.

Exactly.  Just get the 50 APO and thank us later.

[lct]

9 hours ago, JNK100 said:

This doesn't need to be so complicated.

Exactly. Just get the M11 and thank us later 😄

[pgk]

Resolution in a lab setting tells you what a lens and camera might be capable of achieving under perfect conditions. In the real world perfect conditions are rare and many factors influence the end result. Unless you have absolute technical requirement for measurably extreme resolution then most of Leica's current lenses will produce very acceptable results. (I used to MTF test lenses many years ago in case this helps persuade you).

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, jgeenen said:

To complete the picture: A 24 Mpix sensor ends up with about 83 lpm (to be fair: all numbers will be actually lower, if one takes the Bayer filter color sampling algorithm into account). If you look at the MTF curves that reveal notable differences between the lenses' resolution already on 10 lp/mm level, every Leica sensor is good enough to record and show the differences.

BTW: In case you want to dive into lens measurement a bit further, Zeiss has published some valuable documents years ago that are still available online: https://lenspire.zeiss.com/photo/en/article/overview-of-zeiss-camera-lenses-technical-articles

Thank you. The first one is particularly interesting (even with the little implied sneer towards Leica at the end 😉) Erwin Puts did his MTF curve testing at Zeiss, though so the results in his books can be trusted to be measured curves.

[pgk]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Thank you. The first one is particularly interesting (even with the little implied sneer towards Leica at the end 😉) Erwin Puts did his MTF curve testing at Zeiss, though so the results in his books can be trusted to be measured curves.

But don't forget that these are theoretical results. In actual practice the results will always be lower.

[charlesphoto99]

On 1/10/2025 at 2:16 PM, setuporg said:

 

All true!  With two exceptions.  TWO.

 

You're leaving out the 75 APO, 90 APO, and 135 APO. (the 75 and 135 are the only two APO's I own). 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

But don't forget that these are theoretical results. In actual practice the results will always be lower.

Which is exactly what this article emphasizes. 

[setuporg]

3 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

You're leaving out the 75 APO, 90 APO, and 135 APO. (the 75 and 135 are the only two APO's I own). 

Sorry only those two are kings.  Everything else is optional.

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[Tseg]

I bought an M11 because I kept reading how amazing Leica color science was, only to learn in these forums that their color science ain’t so good.  I then bought a 50mm Summilux as I read it was the most magical Leica lens, only to read on these forums that the 50mm APO Summicron is the one to get.  Why is everything in these forums counter to the mainstream view?

On a side note, I spent a career in marketing working for a large corporation selling a technical high performance item to retail consumers.  I spent a lot of hours in our multi-million dollar lab with decades of testing by an army or PhD’s to understand the science behind the outcome.  I could go on for days about spider charts.   Anyway, I would then go to forum’s about the category and was “amazed” at the content I learned from anecdotal experience.

I take all with a grain of salt and test for myself as I know my preferences are unique, as are most people’s.

FYI, I am amazed by Leica color on my M11 and the 50mm Summilux ASPH II.

[JNK100]

8 minutes ago, Tseg said:

I bought an M11 because I kept reading how amazing Leica color science was, only to learn in these forums that their color science ain’t so good.  I then bought a 50mm Summilux as I read it was the most magical Leica lens, only to read on these forums that the 50mm APO Summicron is the one to get.  Why is everything in these forums counter to the mainstream view?

On a side note, I spent a career in marketing working for a large corporation selling a technical high performance item to retail consumers.  I spent a lot of hours in our multi-million dollar lab with decades of testing by an army or PhD’s to understand the science behind the outcome.  I could go on for days about spider charts.   Anyway, I would then go to forum’s about the category and was “amazed” at the content I learned from anecdotal experience.

I take all with a grain of salt and test for myself as I know my preferences are unique, as are most people’s.

FYI, I am amazed by Leica color on my M11 and the 50mm Summilux ASPH II.

Rest assured you are not alone. The M11 paired with the current 50mm  'Lux is bewilderingly good.