M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[elmars]

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

But I agree, they can create very stable SL firmware

Perhaps is Panasonic doing a part of the work with much more man power.

vor 6 Minuten schrieb lct:

Is there a word for post-release tests, theta-testing? Glad people like you are interested enough in helping Leica while a mere hand coding could fix the issue.

Leica is a small company. There were no freezes at the end of the beta phase. But about 20 tester cannot detect all. 

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[lct]

7 minutes ago, elmars said:

Perhaps is Panasonic doing a part of the work with much more man power.

Leica is a small company. There were no freezes at the end of the beta phase. But about 20 tester cannot detect all. 

 I can understand this. Would be interesting to know if owning or otherwise using uncoded lenses was a prerequisite for beta testers.

[elmars]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb lct:

 I can understand this. Would be interesting to know if owning or otherwise using uncoded lenses was a prerequisite for beta testers.

It was not.

[ianforber]

I’ve not had any freezes with my CV 35 f1.5. Lens detection remains at Auto and I picked a 35mm f1.4 Summilux profile from the camera list of M lenses rather than hand code the lens.

[lct]

1 hour ago, elmars said:

It was not.

Hard to tell that the M11 has been beta-tested for uncoded lenses then.

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Hard to tell that the M11 has been beta-tested for uncoded lenses then.

It was. Not a pre requisite though.

[scott kirkpatrick]

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9 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I’m an doing the Lord’s work here.

In seriousness, though, my Leica lenses are working flawlessly, so I can wait for a fix to be able to use my CV 35 1.5 now that I know Leica is still working on fixing the remaining freeze issues. The exact words that the Leica contact used were, “…we are putting a lot of effort into resolving the freeze issues.” 

As I understand it, every launch of a new digital M had issues compared to the later P models, so I had an idea of what I might be in foe. But I agree, they can create very stable SL firmware but seem to struggle with the firmware for the M cameras. Adding off-sensor metering full-time on the M11 probably required a rewrite of much of the existing code from the M10 cameras.

Personally, I think camera testing is interesting, and can help to understand the camera's normal functions better.  The ASIC that Leica calls the Maestro 3 (or is it still 2?) has an ARM processor, I am told, and the firmware, apparently by an M team, not a Panasonic or Panaleica SL team, is ground-up new to the M.  Converting from a very one-step-at-a-time M world to a system that appears to have many things in flight at the same time can cause race conditions.  This is exacerbated by the fact that we use cards ranging from 300 MBps back to the stone age, but the chief problem seems to be gathering exposure and AWB information and getting all the ducks lined up before allowing the exposure to proceed.  Once someone finds a way to abuse the camera and cause a freeze fairly reliably, it gets fixed in the next release.  I'm sure Leica has a few people trying these things at random, but there are more of us and it doesn't take any proprietary information.

a code for freezes could be:  F3 reset with power on/off; F2 reset with battery out for a moment; F1 send it back to dealer or to Wetzlar.  I see an F3 every now and then, and have with previous models.  Haven't seen an F2 in a long time and never had an F1. 

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, ianforber said:

I’ve not had any freezes with my CV 35 f1.5. Lens detection remains at Auto and I picked a 35mm f1.4 Summilux profile from the camera list of M lenses rather than hand code the lens.

Have you ever let it stay on Auto + Uncoded for a few days?

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, elmars said:

Perhaps is Panasonic doing a part of the work with much more man power.

Leica is a small company. There were no freezes at the end of the beta phase. But about 20 tester cannot detect all. 

I thought the same thing, Panasonic versus Leica. My SL2-S with the M-Adapter-L has no problems with my uncoded 35 1.5, but the logic behind the SL2 firmware is more intuitive. The SL2 prompts the user to agree with or set the profile every time a different M lens is detected by the adapter. The way the M11 selects the profile or uses “Uncoded” without a prompt at startup seems to be where the freeze occurs.

[Squad]

I had a freeze a couple of days ago with the Visoflex 2 mounted. The only thing that worked was the eye sensor for the Visoflex 2 which turned on / off. Otherwise every button was dysfunctional. Removing & inserting the battery fixed this issue.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Using my M11, I took some test shots with a CV50/1.5 and a pre-M Summicron 50/2.0 (the paint marks have worn off.  Coded both at an older 50/1.4, no problems.  Returned to my normal APO 35, also no problem.  When does the freeze occur?

Edited April 1, 2023 by scott kirkpatrick

[Qlan]

It occurs at startup for hdmesa and me (although haven’t had time to shoot much on my third M11). Haven’t heard other people having freezes at startup on this forum except for us two. 

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Using my M11, I took some test shots with a CV50/1.5 and a pre-M Summicron 50/2.0 (the paint marks have worn off.  Coded both at an older 50/1.4, no problems.  Returned to my normal APO 35, also no problem.  When does the freeze occur?

Just taking a few test shots isn’t enough to provoke a freeze. As Q mentioned, for us it’s just at startup. You need to use it through the day for an entire day turning it off and on. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

So put on a non-coded lens, set its desired ID, and then use it for a day or two?  I can try that.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

So put on a non-coded lens, set its desired ID, and then use it for a day or two?  I can try that.

Not exactly. My freezes happen when using an uncoded lens and leaving Lens Detection on “Auto” (which will show “Uncoded”) or turning Lens detection “Off”.

[lct]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

My freezes happen when using an uncoded lens and leaving Lens Detection on “Auto” (which will show “Uncoded”) [...]

It should not show “Uncoded” but the last Leica lens entered manually ("1.4/35" eg) if you chose one previously unless you did a camera reset in the meantime perhaps?

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, lct said:

It should not show “Uncoded” but the last Leica lens entered manually ("1.4/35" eg) if you chose one previously unless you did a camera reset in the meantime perhaps?

On this copy of the M11, I’ve never selected a profile.

Is it not the default to show “Uncoded” with an uncoded lens when Lens Detection is set to Auto? 

[lct]

59 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Is it not the default to show “Uncoded” with an uncoded lens when Lens Detection is set to Auto?

The lens type must be entered manually when using uncoded lenses. This way, the default lens profile is the last one entered manually unless we do a camera reset in the meantime i guess.

Edited April 2, 2023 by lct

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[Qlan]

5 hours ago, lct said:

The lens type must be entered manually when using uncoded lenses. This way, the default lens profile is the last one entered manually unless we do a camera reset in the meantime i guess.

You don't have to manually enter a lens profile for a non-coded lens. And anyway I had plenty of freezes on my previous 2 M11s with both setting the lens to OFF and manually selecting a lens profile.

[marchyman]

On 4/1/2023 at 5:52 AM, scott kirkpatrick said:

This is exacerbated by the fact that we use cards ranging from 300 MBps back to the stone age

Busted!   I've only had my M11 for about 3 weeks.   I first used an ancient 32 GB SanDisk Extreme Plus rated 80 MB/s, UHC 1, no V rating.  I switched to a 64 GB SanDisk Extreme Pro rated 200 MB/s,  UHC 1 with a V30 rating.  The switch was because I wanted internal and external memory to be the same.

Both cards are fast enough for my use.  Both cards are large enough for my use.  I realize that is not true for everyone.

I'm using an un-coded ZEISS C BIOGON 2.8/35 lens.  I played with picking a Leica lens code which was close, but have since switched to the camera to "none".  I update EXIF info with proper lens info as part of my image import process.

Anyway, no lock ups to date with the memory cards and lens used.