Best Non-APO 50mm lens for a M.

[stefanusj]

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Summicron 50 Rigid v2

[M2Pete]

Ok! I'm going to throw another wrench in the works here. I shoot a M2 and a M-D 262 and some have said they prefer The Summicron over the Summilux because these camera lack a screen for verifying critics focus at 1.4. Is this really an issue? I'm not too worried as I have the x1.4 magnifier but I was a lawyer in a former life and thus skeptical by nature.

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[Jeff S]

As noted, user techniques and preferences  vary, user eyesight varies, camera bodies vary, etc. I use the 50 Summilux ASPH with RF only, and no magnifier, without any issue.  But I wear glasses to correct for both distance and astigmatism and, due to aging eyes, have added a +.5 diopter to optimize focus. How did I determine what diopter strength, if any, would make a difference?  I experimented with free trial diopters and my M bodies at my local optician. I also checked to be sure that my RF was properly calibrated.

I’m not a lawyer. But others will have different opinions and experiences.  Surveys won’t address these distinctions. Just sayin’

Jeff

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Jeff S

[rramesh]

There is no such thing as a best lens for an M. There may however be a best for a given use provided you have it when you need it.

Some considerations are:

- Classical rendering
- Modern rendering
- Low light
- Resolution
- Bokeh
- Compact
etc.

Personally I find the Summilux 50 more than sufficient for my needs.
 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by rramesh

[pippy]

7 hours ago, M2Pete said:

...I shoot a M2 and a M-D 262 and some have said they prefer The Summicron over the Summilux because these camera lack a screen for verifying critics focus at 1.4. Is this really an issue?...

That, Pete, will depend 100% on your own ability to focus using your own cameras' rangefinders accurately and your own eyesight. Also - to state the obvious - having 100% calibration accuracy of those cameras' individual r/f systems themselves is of cardinal importance.

As it happens 'screen-less' I also shoot with an M2 and an M-D Typ-262 and have no problems whatsoever using 'fast' 50mm lenses (f1.1 & f1.5). If you have been using your 50mm f1.5 accurately then there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't do the same with an f1.4 50mm.

Philip.

Edited April 4, 2022 by pippy

[lct]

7 hours ago, M2Pete said:

Ok! I'm going to throw another wrench in the works here. I shoot a M2 and a M-D 262 and some have said they prefer The Summicron over the Summilux because these camera lack a screen for verifying critics focus at 1.4. Is this really an issue? I'm not too worried as I have the x1.4 magnifier but I was a lawyer in a former life and thus skeptical by nature.

Haha same club here . It is not an issue per se, or an issue by nature so to speak. At f/1.4 DoF is of course thinner than at f/2 so the least move of the focusing ring may produce some blur. Now all M rangefinders are calculated to be accurate at f/1.4 on 50mm lenses so suffice it to make sure that your lens and body are well calibrated. See @pippy's post above.

[Jeff S]

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And post #23 before that… need to to ensure proper calibration.

Jeff

[RexGig0]

The Summilux-M 50mm ASPH is the lens that lured into adding the Leica M system. I knew I wanted to try one, before I had ever used any Leica equipment; the images I had seen, posted on-line, were special. I found one, pre-owned, at a local Leica dealer, and, after trying it on an M9, and on a demonstrator M Type 240, knew that I wanted to buy this ONE, particular Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. (I already knew that sample variation exists.) I was told that there were two new M10 cameras, in stock, as the long-persistent waiting list had recently been reduced to zero. I crunched the numbers. I realized that a left shoulder injury would make it difficult to use a planned Nikkor super-telephoto lens, hand-held, anytime soon, so I scuttled plans to buy the big lens, and told the sales person that I would buy the pre-owned Summilux, a new M10, and a shorter telephoto lens (Zeiss 85mm Otus) for our Nikons. (My wife already had her D850.)

I had never found an SLR 50mm lens, that I really liked. I love my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. My wife, or the executor of my estate, will be deciding what to do with this lens, because I plan to keep it. This lens shoots the way I want to shoot at 50mm. If someone were to gift me with the funds sufficient to acquire an APO Summicron-M 50mm ASPH, I would not use it for that lens, because my Summilux is “my” best 50mm lens.

As has already mentioned, in earlier replies, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH was not labeled “APO,” but the designer, Peter Karbe, has indicated that it is APO. 

Of course, “APO,” and truly, completely, scientifically apochromatic, are not exactly the same thing. It suffices to say, I would think, that the Summilux ASPH is one of Leica’s best lenses, and that loving what it can render, with the aperture wide-open, is something that the 50mm APO cannot do, and that when stopped-down, the sharpness requires no apologies.

Regarding that super-telephoto lens, well, my left shoulder did heal, eventually, but I have not resumed wanting to buy that 600mm f/4, 400mm f/2.8, or 800mm f/5.6 monster.

[Jeff S]

I rented the 50 M APO Summicron for a week and decided to keep my 50 M Summilux ASPH instead, without regard to price.

Jeff

[M2Pete]

Thanks for the helpful responses. I seriously think I'd enjoy the lux. Things are confusing at present (moving to Australia), and the lens is my wish list to be purchased for this summer's/winter's enjoyment.

Again, all of your responses were really helpful and successfully swayed the jury to save and spring for the Summilux. 😊

[OSEGAL]

I thought  the summilux asph will be the one. I was wrong. I didn't like it for b&w on my film leicas.

After coupe of weeks I've sold mine and it was a very good copy without any issues. it was too sharp, I didn't like its rendering. in color film it was great. 

I fell in love with a zeiss sonnar zm 50 1.5  and combined it with a v5 summicron that i find gentler than the summilux.

[jankap]

Non APO is asking for problems. APO is a marketing requirement for the production of a lens, less APO means less effort, less $$s.

Non Asph. is ok, that is construction detail only. Today with modern processing Asph. is not so much a problem any more.

Edited April 5, 2022 by jankap

[Photon42]

19 hours ago, M2Pete said:

Thanks for the helpful responses. I seriously think I'd enjoy the lux. Things are confusing at present (moving to Australia), and the lens is my wish list to be purchased for this summer's/winter's enjoyment.

Again, all of your responses were really helpful and successfully swayed the jury to save and spring for the Summilux. 😊

Do that. You won't regret it.

[Danner]

IMHO, the Type IV 50mm Summicron is sweet spot for 50mm Leica lenses.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Danner

[pippy]

23 minutes ago, Danner said:

IMHO, the Type IV 50mm Summicron is sweet spot for 50mm Leica lenses.

FWIW I agree 100%. As an 'all-rounder' it has never been equalled; it manages to do almost everything almost perfectly.

Philip.

Edited April 5, 2022 by pippy

[M2Pete]

3 hours ago, pippy said:

FWIW I agree 100%. As an 'all-rounder' it has never been equalled; it manages to do almost everything almost perfectly.

Philip.

Aw geez folks, dd ya have to bring this into the equation and further confuse my befuddled mind? 🤕

[lct]

6 minutes ago, M2Pete said:

Aw geez folks, dd ya have to bring this into the equation and further confuse my befuddled mind? 🤕

Don't worry the Summicron 50/2 v5 is an excellent lens indeed but, objectively, it cannot compete with the Summilux 50/1.4 asph on any ground but size, weight and ... price hence its popularity. Subjectively it is another story ... or not depending upon tastes only .

[Capuccino-Muffin]

9 hours ago, jankap said:

Non APO is asking for problems. APO is a marketing requirement for the production of a lens, less APO means less effort, less $$s.

Non Asph. is ok, that is construction detail only. Today with modern processing Asph. is not so much a problem any more.

No lens in the world is non-apo. They are all apo to some extent, or non-apo to some extent. You decide, it’s all the same.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, M2Pete said:

Aw geez folks, dd ya have to bring this into the equation and further confuse my befuddled mind? 🤕

The good news is that you basically can’t make a bad choice.  All of these options are high quality lenses, fully capable of producing fine pics, depending on you and all the other variables in your shooting and editing workflow, especially if you take time to print. Pick one within your budget and be happy (and stay clear of the forum until you’ve bonded with it). 
 

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[aesop]

On 4/3/2022 at 4:06 AM, M2Pete said:

I know the answer to this is very subjective so I'll try to set some perimeters/guidelines and hope that helps. I had a stroke four years ago that, despite attempts at recovery, has left me dependent on a walker and really slowed me down. Needless to say, it changed the way I take photos and, while the new learning curve has been interesting I have had to settle acknowledging on a couple of realities. I use to shoot primarily 28mm or 25, sometime 21 or 25mm, but cannot do that now (maybe landscape?) as my walker slowed my pace keeps me from getting close and I am no longer adept at reacting in a timely fashion. So I'm trying other options.

That the end of the sob story.

I've started focusing on 50mm and even 75mm lenses. I have plenty of 50's but now really looking for a fast 1.4 or 1.8. The Leica APOs are a little above my pay grade but, selling some of my wider lenses, I am able to look at Sumicron and Sumilux options. I am by no means adverse to other brands (my standard 35mm was a Zeiss Biogon) but the Sumilux really has caught my eye.

Any ideas or owners of the cron or lux that prefer one or the other? Any other makes for suggestion over what Leica offers?

Much thanks!

 

      ...quick question, M2Pete - are we talking film or digital photography here? I ask because other than an inconclusive hint in your username, it is unclear what medium you were referring to. This matters because with digital, using a Summarit, Summicron or Summilux will matter less (speed-wise, that is) than with film. Thanks.