Purchase an M11 or an M10-R…?

[eyeheartny]

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6 hours ago, AndersPH said:

I found a New M10-R silver for around $6600, save around $2300 compared to M11, worth it? I live in Sweden 

Depending on import duties and currency conversion, you may be able to find an M11 for a few hundred dollars more from dealers in Asia. The reputable Hong Kong dealers (Rangefinder HK, AllGoodFriend Camera, etc) are not that different from that price when converting to USD. It would be worth your time to explore whether that's true for you as well in Sweden. It made the decision very easy for me to go for an M11 rather than an M10-R because of this. They also have excellent pricing on lenses. 

[jakontil]

10 hours ago, AndersPH said:

I found a New M10-R silver for around $6600, save around $2300 compared to M11, worth it? I live in Sweden 

I keep my m10r because i found my workflow isn ‘t changed much compared to M11, besides it’s a black paint which i intended to keep at the first place

that being said, between m11 and m10-R aint much of a different in terms of image quality, so if price is most concerned, getting the M10-R is more feasible, ignoring the battery life and usb c port which M11 have the advantages

[M Street Photographer]

It would be a disaster if a new camera wasn't better than its predecessor. Aside from the sensor, each new product is constantly being developed.
But that would almost mean that you have to upgrade when a sequel appears.
Everyone has to answer their own questions about whether the new features are worth investing again.

For me it's not worth the M11, as I wrote before, I have experience with 60 MP, which I really don't need. Battery life does not limit me either, I have a 2nd battery.

Please note my explanation in post # 36.

[FranciscoChung]

This reminded me about choosing M11 instead of M10-R Black Paint when I had the chance. They were exactly the same price & I chose M11... I regret it every single day...

[jakontil]

22 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

M10-R Black Paint all the way for me, for reasons @jakontil listed in his first paragraph.
Still keeping in mind though that M11 is the BEST DIGITAL M LEICA in the world at the moment. The USB C charging from a powerbank alone when off the grid for a prolonged period of time is incredible.

Yeah if i were to pick one, it’s gotta be the BP, though the usb c port is a game changer for me, the battery life is a much added improvement but i have lived without ‘em throughout

the BP is what most appealing and im fortunate not have let it go when i got my M11 

now it’s my spare digital camera im happy to work with

[S Maclean]

I went M11 and love it.  I do not see any reason to get a new m10r instead.  Another question would be the m10 m, that I want but I’m  holding to see if a m11 m is ever issued.  Still I find that conversions to B&W from the M11 are very very good and compete with what by skill set can get out of the monochrome camera.

 

anyway.  I’d get m11

[6bit]

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M11. For me, the improvements are well worth it. 

[Ouroboros]

I chose the M10-R black paint over the M11 and would do so again. I see M11 as an interim with some operational aspects I dislike.  I suspect a future M12 will be a more tempting evolution of the M series. 

[lucy63]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

I chose the M10-R black paint over the M11 and would do so again. I see M11 as an interim with some operational aspects I dislike.  I suspect a future M12 will be a more tempting evolution of the M series. 

A contemporary, ergonomically desiged M, that would be a tempting evolution.

[M Street Photographer]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Artin:

I have been using the M11 for 8 months now, sold the M10R and will not look back, the only reason anyone should choose an M10R over the 11 should be cost. The 11 is a huge upgrade in every way. 

But another question would be, do I just want an upgrade, or do I need these new features.
Were there any shots and situations that I couldn't take with one camera, or was it my fault.
What shots can I get with the M11 that I can't get with the M 10R? Do I miss a lot of quality with the predecessor?

And only when I have answered these questions should the price be considered.
But there are also people who simply cannot afford an M11, please consider my thoughts.

[Photoworks]

57 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

But another question would be, do I just want an upgrade, or do I need these new features.
Were there any shots and situations that I couldn't take with one camera, or was it my fault.
What shots can I get with the M11 that I can't get with the M 10R? Do I miss a lot of quality with the predecessor?

And only when I have answered these questions should the price be considered.
But there are also people who simply cannot afford an M11, please consider my thoughts.

Shouldn't you think about yourself first. For me it comes to who is the audience ! It is professional , who are the clients and what do they need.
If you are doing it for yourself, do you need either one?

I had both and saw no point in keeping both, plus I needed to pay for one still.

The M11 is a no brainer if you don't have any and you want/need the ultimate.
I hear few people are all about the look and want a black paint M10R, oh well there is no client need there.

In any case if you have M10R there is no point. If you have the M10-P I would upgrade ! If you have the M11, oh well ...

 

[M Street Photographer]

Thanks for your answers. As a German, I used our prices as a basis. Here the difference between a used M10 R and the new M 11 is about 1,800 - 2,200.  The used price is around 5,800 and 6,000 from private. This is very worthwhile for me, but that was not the reason for me to buy the M10 R.

Edited October 3, 2022 by M Street Photographer

[SiggiGun]

I have no M10-R but a M10-D. Main difference is the Sensor. Which means overall image quality. If I say "sensor" of course It means the physical sensor and the related image software. I have started last year in summer with the M11. 

What I like mainly with the M11 : longer BATTERY life, USB-C connectivity

What I don't like with the M11: Shutter wack up time and related bugs, color management "Magenta", light metering is now under control.

This means my concerns are exclusively related to the camera behavior und user main user functions. I don't consider resolution, pixel counting etc. However color rendering is for me a real problem. Furthermore, I consider the "old" M10 light metering still better and as a result the M10 shutter management is more efficient, more M6 style.

 

[M11 for me]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb M Street Photographer:

But another question would be, do I just want an upgrade, or do I need these new features.
Were there any shots and situations that I couldn't take with one camera, or was it my fault.
What shots can I get with the M11 that I can't get with the M 10R? Do I miss a lot of quality with the predecessor?

And only when I have answered these questions should the price be considered.
But there are also people who simply cannot afford an M11, please consider my thoughts.

I wonder if I need more than a small Fuji Film camera for less that 1K $. I believe that as a hobby-tool I need not spend more money. Unless you just like that M product. Its not the question of need. No its my hobby. I have no customers (sometimes after all). In most cases my mobile phone would probably be enough (think of one of these recent deviced with above 40MPix). But I think differently: I love the beauty of that M product. I love how it works and how it does. No need. No need. No, no, no. But when thinking of the M11 compared to my "old" M10. Yes, there is a clear difference: I do NOT need the difference. But think of the new sensor, the way how it measures the light. If I had no Leica and I would like to buy an M, then I would go for the M11. But I would buy a Leica only in case that my family would agree and that they would not miss anything more important in life before I buy that M. I have been interested in photography for more than 50 years. I went with Voigtländer and then Canon but I looked at the Ms in the window of the Leica store. I was always very happy with just looking. Today I have an M11. I never talked about "my creativity" or "my photography". No I just take photographs and I work on them in lightroom. Once I could go to an exhibition with a few of my pictures and from times to times I get a paid assignement. Whouau! And then it makes me happy when they like my photographs (or should I say my "photography"?).

Edited October 3, 2022 by M11 for me

[charlesphoto99]

16 hours ago, Artin said:

 The 11 is a huge upgrade in every way. 

The 12 will be an even huger upgrade. 

[M Street Photographer]

vor einer Stunde schrieb M11 for me:

.. But when thinking of the M11 compared to my "old" M10. Yes, ...

I understand you, you came from the M10. The R already has another sensor that is very close to the M11. I would have thought twice about upgrading from the M10 to the R and then taking the M11 as well.
It was different for me, after years of giving up, I wanted an M again and after much careful consideration I decided on the M10R, because the advantage of the M11 is not so pronounced for me.

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb charlesphoto99:

The 12 will be an even huger upgrade. 

Of course. You are fully right. Lots of people will probably get the M12 then (me included). No doubt. Imagine the M8 and all digital M cameras since. Now M11 and M12 in a few years. There were always huge upgrades.

[Jeff S]

16 hours ago, Artin said:

 , improved OVF, 

In what way?

Jeff

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, M11 for me said:

Of course. You are fully right. Lots of people will probably get the M12 then (me included). No doubt. Imagine the M8 and all digital M cameras since. Now M11 and M12 in a few years. There were always huge upgrades.

wow it has been a minute, I so don't miss M8! 

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Hallo,

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[jakontil]

12 hours ago, SiggiGun said:

I have no M10-R but a M10-D. Main difference is the Sensor. Which means overall image quality. If I say "sensor" of course It means the physical sensor and the related image software. I have started last year in summer with the M11. 

What I like mainly with the M11 : longer BATTERY life, USB-C connectivity

What I don't like with the M11: Shutter wack up time and related bugs, color management "Magenta", light metering is now under control.

This means my concerns are exclusively related to the camera behavior und user main user functions. I don't consider resolution, pixel counting etc. However color rendering is for me a real problem. Furthermore, I consider the "old" M10 light metering still better and as a result the M10 shutter management is more efficient, more M6 style.

 

M10D is a keeper as much as M10R in black paint to my book, i made a mistake when i let it go..