Would you buy an EVF only camera with an M mount?

[pgk]

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2 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

In the meantime, I'll just mention that Leica has said repeatedly that the optical RF is going nowhere.

Ahhhh, yes. And I'm pretty sure that the believed the same when they introduced the original SL and the R Series. In fact wasn't the M4 to be the last M? History repeats itself even though we always think that this time it will be different.

[ianman]

I’ll let you know for sure if one exists if and when I need a new M body and depending on the state of my eyesight at the time.

So put me down as a maybe.

[scroy]

Actually, An EVF- M11M would be nice => It would be great to see the B&W image in the viewfinder as you capture it.

[Tailwagger]

3 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I should have put *I want a Ferrari* as an option,  I may have voted differently.

Not me. 20 years ago when I owned one, I recall forking over the equivalent of a M for service every year for a car I didn't dare park anywhere other than in my garage. Dreams are often so much sweeter than reality. Hopefully that wont be the case with this camera. 

[IkarusJohn]

2 minutes ago, scroy said:

Actually, An EVF- M11M would be nice => It would be great to see the B&W image in the viewfinder as you capture it.

You can do this already with the external EVF - just set your jpeg to B&W …

[MRJohn]

Of course, the rangefinder has severe limitations and was never designed to work with super fast lenses (though it does) or zooms because they had not been around, or long tele lenses. It is amazing how Leica kept it relevant over the decades. Kudos to Leica. I am using with pleasure an M7 with a 0.85 viewfinder and a 35 mm lens. This whole frame line advantage is gone and I do not miss it because the focusing advantage has priority for me. It’s great to use a rangefinder as a legacy experience and it enables great pictures, but I think it is now an impediment to innovation. Rangefinders also do not have screens. If we want to be purists, then only the D versions should be a allowed. So yes, bring on an EVF-M  and Continue to evolve the OVF-M as a D Version only, true to its heritage. 

[Hanno]

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11 minutes ago, scroy said:

Actually, An EVF- M11M would be nice => It would be great to see the B&W image in the viewfinder as you capture it.

Given that the Visoflex 2 is such a great combo with the M11, while waiting for a possible EVF M11M, it will be already a good combo when the M11M comes out. While the resolution and blackout are not as good as the SL2's, it really works well and integrates/fits well with the body. 

[AndrewDD]

No. 

I have a Q2 which I exclusively use with the screen, not the EVF. A couple of times, in very bright sunlight when viewing the screen is difficult, I have tried the EVF and found the experience horrible.

[raizans]

What would be a good letter to put in front of M?

OM is out of the cards, obviously.

[SrMi]

10 minutes ago, raizans said:

What would be a good letter to put in front of M?

OM is out of the cards, obviously.

eM :).

[Tailwagger]

Well, given this is all fanciful at this stage, will require a lot of wizardry, piss any number of people off and generate huge controversy, I think it should be called the Auntie Em.  Say it out loud and you'll understand why. 😆

[M Journey]

  

On 1/22/2022 at 9:19 PM, M Journey said:

Sony put a a7x series camera into a A6xx body, making the A7c.  I think some people want a SL in M type body.  I would keep it L mount native so you can use both L and m lenses (with adaptor).  Tweak the sensor so it is maximized for m lenses.  I would buy such a body.  That would allow me to use m lenses when I want to be discreet and L lenses when I want autofocus.  A camera like this would get me to convert completely to the Leica ecosystem.  I don’t shoot birds so the lack of super tele lenses on L mount doesn’t bother me.

A lot of people say this is just a full frame CL.  I think this is a super-premium full frame CL. 

Just make a version of whatever the next SL camera in a M body and optimize the micro lenses on the sensor for M lenses.  You can even charge M prices.  I would be ok with it being the same thickness as the m240 in order to fit IBIS.  Throw in 2 card slots while you are at it.  Even though having internal memory is nice, ejecting two cards and plugging them into a card reader is simpler since you are plugging ejecting one each time anyway.

I also want a silver chrome version and keep the brass.  

[mmradman]

16 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Clear majority in favour so far.

So far we were not being given dressing down with reminder of meaning of German word starting with M.

Joking aside, if one look at fast readout electronic shutter and blackout free EVF technologies introduced in Nikon Z9 at the end of 2021 yet similarly priced as M240 in 2012/13,  than creating M sized body with M mount (or L mount), electronic shutter only, IBIS and decent EVF doesn't sound impossible in next release cycle.  Keeping video out would eliminate thermal management issues and also provide reconciliatory gesture to Leica traditionalist who would like to tell us meaning of M word.

Other option would be to retain optical VF but introduce electronic focus confirmation as mechanical coupling between lenses and RF mechanism is focusing bottleneck, having said that ability to focus outside focus patch provides greater compositional freedom.  If this would to happen external EVF would only be required for non RF-coupled lenses, and framing if so desired.   

[Ba Erv]

12 hours ago, raizans said:

What would be a good letter to put in front of M?

OM is out of the cards, obviously.

I'm betting on a QM.

[digitalfx]

17 minutes ago, mmradman said:

So far we were not being given dressing down with reminder of meaning of German word starting with M.

 

Messucher = Rangefinder...since EVF's didnt exist when rangefinders were adopted into cameras one could argue today that an EVF is no different. It aids you in framing and focusing your image in the same way a rangefinder does.

There is no reason an EVF cant eventually replace and exceed a RF...we aren't there yet, but soon. Even adding a look around view is possible and has been done for years on RED cameras.

 

#blasphemy

[lct]

5 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

Messucher = Rangefinder...

Just add an "s" and you could tell than messsucher is the name of a focusing device built in some M-mount cameras .

[SrMi]

We should also address the elephant in the room. What would happen to Leica's rangefinder line if Leica launched an EVF M-mount camera? I assume that many would abandon rangefinder models for the new EVF-based one. For the rangefinder enthusiasts, the better solution may be a hybrid viewfinder instead of a separate model line.

[lct]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

We should also address the elephant in the room. What would happen to Leica's rangefinder line if Leica launched an EVF M-mount camera? I assume that many would abandon rangefinder models for the new EVF-based one. For the rangefinder enthusiasts, the better solution may be a hybrid viewfinder instead of a separate model line.

For the rangefinder enthusiasts, the better solution would be the M11 i guess or an M11-S with a smaller and cleaner sensor. As for hybrids with true RFs they don't exist and Leica said they tried to design one to no avail IIRC.

[adan]

I voted "will have to see" on the poll.

An EVF camera (M-mount or otherwise) would never be my primary photographic tool - that will always remain the classic M RF/VF for lenses 21-135mm. But as a 3rd or 4th body for special needs, I might add one.

I have quite high standards for what I would accept in an EVF, which I stated previously in the "M11 - next camera?" thread.

Has to effectively replicate/simulate a classic 35mm SLR ground-glass screen: simulated "split-image" focus confirmation via computer graphics overlay**; total lag not substantially slower than 50-60 milliseconds, 4K resolution (12 million dots ±).

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After all, a classic SLR (as well as the M) gets its viewing light directly from the subject (not re-created with an LCD), via glass and mirrors, at 300000 km/s. However, the mirror mechanism slows things down, so I'll accept "slower than a rangefinder body - but not slower than a Nikon F" viewing/shutter lag.

I'm sure that will be possible in the not-too-distant future. The basic tech for the parts already exists - the bottleneck will be image processing speed. To gather the image from the sensor, apply the computed graphics, and then ship X-many Mbytes to the EVF screen 1/20th sec. later, at 60-120 times a second.

Fujifilm already attempts the split-image simulation - not very well, but at least they made the effort.

If computers are going to able to simulate a whole "metaverse" - this should be a piece of cake.

......................

**This would be an option, along with Crayola™-scribbled "focus peaking" or spot magnification of one's choice. Even a simple focus-confirmation light (since the split-image simulation requires phase-detect pixels on the sensor anyway).

Edited January 28, 2022 by adan

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[Guest]

I am in the NO camp..........Inside the tent.

Sure, as Adan says above, the EVF technology is progressing at the speed of most electronic innovations these days, quickly, and maybe someday one will come along that can near replicate an OVF experience, but from what I have seen of all EVF's so far to date, in stills and movie camera systems, there's still nothing that comes close to the OVF experience, for me anyway........After all, through an OVF you are viewing the actual light reflected from your subject, an EVF gives you it's interpretation of that light and that interpretation can vary wildly.