John Smith Posted January 15, 2022 Share #1 Posted January 15, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) When Leica introduced the M10R, I suggested that it was the M, not the S that was driving innovation. Well, I got pilloried for that. "Technology always flows down from the S to the SL to the M," yada yada yada. So, question is, where does the M11 put the S now? It has just about as many megapixels as the S3 and has moved closer to its mirrorless brethren. Peter Karbe said in a Leica Australia video that Leica is looking at making everything smaller. You think this is it for the S line? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 Hi John Smith, Take a look here Where Does the M11 Put the S?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
frame-it Posted January 15, 2022 Share #2 Posted January 15, 2022 60mp on a 35mm sensor is not the same as 60+mp on a medium format sensor. if Leica are sticking with Sony sensors, then who knows..maybe the S4 will be 100+mp? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted January 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, frame-it said: 60mp on a 35mm sensor is not the same as 60+mp on a medium format sensor. if Leica are sticking with Sony sensors, then who knows..maybe the S4 will be 100+mp? Maybe not. But if you were Leica, would you be more interested in expanding a 61MP 35mm/35mm APO mirrorless combination or trying to reinvigorate a mirrored system? I'm not knocking the S system. It's a legitimate question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted January 15, 2022 Share #4 Posted January 15, 2022 I was getting interested in the M11, then I saw a shot on DPReview taken at 12,500 ISO - it looked terrible at 100%, nothing like what I would have expected from my several years old S(007)... https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/5740841570/leica-m11-pre-production-sample-gallery-dpreview-tv/0196737996 john 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsauro Posted January 15, 2022 Share #5 Posted January 15, 2022 Leica Rumours has an article suggesting new camera’s being announced in 2022..including the SL, Q and S! This could be very exciting. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted January 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, Dsauro said: Leica Rumours has an article suggesting new camera’s being announced in 2022..including the SL, Q and S! This could be very exciting. Yes, I just saw that. You can barely see a card by the S on the upper righthand corner. If that's the case, I'm all in. Leica is much more ambitious than I thought. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328545-where-does-the-m11-put-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=4356797'>More sharing options...
John Smith Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share #7 Posted January 15, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 25 minutes ago, John McMaster said: I was getting interested in the M11, then I saw a shot on DPReview taken at 12,500 ISO - it looked terrible at 100%, nothing like what I would have expected from my several years old S(007)... https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/5740841570/leica-m11-pre-production-sample-gallery-dpreview-tv/0196737996 john The 007 is very good, even said to have better DR than the S3 on PtoP. But I doubt that Leica will continue with the S as a mirrored system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted January 15, 2022 Share #8 Posted January 15, 2022 Dpreview has a long history of making Leica's look bad. Remember the model with tiny hands holding the original SL? It looked like a FUJI GX680! I would also try to avoid comparing different resolution cameras at 100%. Having said all that, I'd still prefer the S(007) to any FF sensor camera ever built. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted January 15, 2022 Share #9 Posted January 15, 2022 I think I do too, sold most of my M lenses so not looking to re-invest in that system 😉 john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter12 Posted January 15, 2022 Share #10 Posted January 15, 2022 The S is a different camera. It is a true SLR, with an optical viewfinder. Nothing else compares. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted January 15, 2022 Share #11 Posted January 15, 2022 Very different camera! A new sports car will not invalid a truck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter12 Posted January 15, 2022 Share #12 Posted January 15, 2022 Are you calling the S a truck? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted January 15, 2022 Share #13 Posted January 15, 2022 The S is a tank. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted January 15, 2022 Share #14 Posted January 15, 2022 4 hours ago, John Smith said: When Leica introduced the M10R, I suggested that it was the M, not the S that was driving innovation. Well, I got pilloried for that. "Technology always flows down from the S to the SL to the M," yada yada yada. So, question is, where does the M11 put the S now? It has just about as many megapixels as the S3 and has moved closer to its mirrorless brethren. Peter Karbe said in a Leica Australia video that Leica is looking at making everything smaller. You think this is it for the S line? Wasn't the point that S has a sensor size not used by anyone else? Therefore, to reduce the cost, the sensor waffle made for S has also been used for M. As I understand it, S006 and M9, S007 and M240, and S3 and M10R share sensors.M11 uses, again as I understand it, a 'commercially' available (Sony) sensor, whereas S4 or whatever may or may not be in the pipeline. As long as Leica sticks to the original S sensor size, the next incarnation of S requires another specially made sensor. If not shared with M or SL or CL, the sensor expenses will be very high. The above is my understanding, but I could very well be wrong... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnian Posted January 15, 2022 Share #15 Posted January 15, 2022 I see the S as a Rolls Royce - slow, heavy, built like a tank but comfortable. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted January 15, 2022 Share #16 Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Pieter12 said: Are you calling the S a truck? Yes, a cybertruck. 😅 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted January 15, 2022 Share #17 Posted January 15, 2022 54 minutes ago, helged said: Wasn't the point that S has a sensor size not used by anyone else? Therefore, to reduce the cost, the sensor waffle made for S has also been used for M. As I understand it, S006 and M9, S007 and M240, and S3 and M10R share sensors.M11 uses, again as I understand it, a 'commercially' available (Sony) sensor, whereas S4 or whatever may or may not be in the pipeline. As long as Leica sticks to the original S sensor size, the next incarnation of S requires another specially made sensor. If not shared with M or SL or CL, the sensor expenses will be very high. The above is my understanding, but I could very well be wrong... If it is mirrorless they can use 100M Sony sensor that all s glasses will cover it just fine. A brilliant one with lower cost ( I would believe). S glass may get a boost when that coming:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted January 16, 2022 Share #18 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, ZHNL said: If it is mirrorless they can use 100M Sony sensor that all s glasses will cover it just fine. A brilliant one with lower cost ( I would believe). S glass may get a boost when that coming:) +1. (but do we want a mirrorless S more than an S with optical viewfinder?) Edited January 16, 2022 by helged 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmay Posted January 16, 2022 Share #19 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, helged said: Where did you get this information about M11 Sony sensor ? I doubt it comes from a person, who knows. Edited January 16, 2022 by djmay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted January 16, 2022 Share #20 Posted January 16, 2022 22 minutes ago, djmay said: Where did you get this information about M11 Sony sensor ? I doubt it comes from a person, who knows. Only what people tend to believe, from the 6k postings on the M11 thread. So the sensor could be from many manufacturers, whereas the S sensor is not an off-the-shelf product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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