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Why I will not be getting a M11...

bernstein1234

By bernstein1234
in Leica M11

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charlesphoto99
charlesphoto99

I will say about the M11 shutter release time, having handled it in the shop for a few minutes, to me, and I'm known for capturing split second moments (see below, M10-R shot), I would have no hesitat

setuporg
setuporg

Please send location and allow for a delay while I stuff pillows in a pickup truck...

neekon
neekon

I actually bought one.  I regret it.   after 14hrs of use And this might change as I get used to it.  But my initial reaction is one of regret and frustration  I think the finish of the black

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tom0511

tom0511

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb M10 for me:

Do you know the lag in milliseconds of the M10 against M11? Can I measure without soecial tools? I have my doubts it that is a point agains M11 😜

The M11 is very slightly longer lag than M10r in classic mode (feels about the same imo). the difference between M10r in classic vs M10r in live view is more pronounced. Thats how I feel about it and why I prefer to use the M10r in classic mode and then accept to not have access to the advanced metering modes.

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IkarusJohn

IkarusJohn

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41 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

M11, the shutter is open but not live view (shorter lag). I prefer to use M10r in classic mode because of the lag in life view.

I have no real interest in shutter lag, nor the disctinction between shutter open and live view.  The distinction between shutter open, with metering off the sensor, and shutter closed, with metering off the shutter, does.  Can’t really explain why (that’s what I have on my SL and TL2) but it does bother me - I’d rather the M gave the appearance of being as simple as possible.

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otto.f

otto.f

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Advertisement (gone after registration)

17 hours ago, Kwesi said:

commercial shooting situations

depends on the vogue at hand, in fashion photography the clinical, perfettissimo, Audrey Hepburn, nosinglehairdroppingloosefromthebunch-look has long been gone. Flare is a quite common style figure in advertising nowadays, associated with romance and dear memories.

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harmen

harmen

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As some have said, the facts are the facts, but then there is personal opinion about how that works in your favour or not.  Having enjoyed an M11 for a few days now, I relish how it gets out of the way.  I did not enjoy my 240 as much as my M-A and consequently did not use it as much anymore in the past years.  The 11 brings the following joys - to me

  • No ugly blown-out whites / limited range especially while dealing with strong tropical sun light
  • Any aperture possible at any time
  • Clearer view through the viewfinder and greater ease of getting the focus right
  • Convenience when charging, reviewing images, transferring them
  • Easier to hold due to the weight and texture

So many limitations are gone.  It is only noticeable in comparison and I am sure I will simply forget these improvements soon.  The camera just gets out of the way and makes using it seamless.

Edited by harmen
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FlashGordonPhotography

FlashGordonPhotography

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2 hours ago, M10 for me said:

Do you know the lag in milliseconds of the M10 against M11? Can I measure without soecial tools? I have my doubts it that is a point agains M11 😜

M10R to M11 is 10 milliseconds difference, according to Leica. Shutter on regular M10 is louder than M11 but M11 sound is longer and about same volume as M10P/M/R.

I can't speak for others but 10 milliseconds is probably less than the variation in how I press the shutter on the camera.

Gordon

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tom0511

tom0511

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I understand that some feel the M11 one further step more ‚compterized‘ vs the M10series, so If one doesnt care for the (slight) improved features, the M10r or M10 might be the more compeeling options for those, even price aside.

for my part I have wished for a more advanced metering as long as I have experienced in other cameras (Canikon, but also Leica S and SL)- so for me its a real bonus. Still yes, I dont really like the klack when switching on the camera.

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charlesphoto99

charlesphoto99

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I will say about the M11 shutter release time, having handled it in the shop for a few minutes, to me, and I'm known for capturing split second moments (see below, M10-R shot), I would have no hesitation using it thus. And I actually like the 'klatch' sound turning it on because at least I then could tell exactly when it was ready, vs the push, push, push, okay there it is of the M10 etc. The 11 is a good upgrade, and the M for those starting from new. If disposable cash is your thing, then go for it, but I wouldn't be emptying the bank account just to go from a 10 (esp a 10-R).

 

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paulsydaus

paulsydaus

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On 2/3/2022 at 5:08 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The shutter speed difference is 0.01 of a second, compared to the M10. That's well withing the range of error for your reaction time to push the shutter button. It's likely the M11 IS faster than the M-A. The difference in the throw depth of the shutter button is probably bigger.

And you can turn the metering to centre weighted, if you want. Do so and it will be EXACTLY the same as the metering in the previous M's. Centre weighted. Centre weighted metering is already available in the M11. I can tell you now the new multi weighted metering in the M11 is really much better and more consistant than the M10. But if you feel the need to shoot in dinosaur mode, it's still available on the M11.

I'm sorry but I think you lot have lost your collective minds! It's a 10 millisecond change! Infintessably small difference. It's faster than the M8. Faster than the M9. Faster than the M (240). I'm stunned that so many people are so put out by something they couldn't measure without specialised equipment. Something that makes NO differene to the shooting experience. Zero. Nada. Nil! The old metering pattern is currently available. And the M10R is still there if you want one.

This place makes me shake my head sometimes. There are some things that do make a change. There are some firmware issues that need to be addressed. These are not them. And I'll bet  a grand that less than 1% of actual  M11 owners want to go back after a week of ownership. The rest of you need to rent one instead of worrying about 10 milliseconds. 5 minutes in a shop isn't the way to tell. I don't even have my EVF yet and this is already a better camera than the M10/P/R. There's so many good things going on with the M11 and yet we have pages and pages of drivel worrying about 10 milliseconds. It's bizzarre.

Then there's the one's whinning there's no IBIS. And the guy who wants the meter removed entirely. Damn I'm glad I'm not a camera designer at Leica. No one is happy with the M11. Except everyone who actually ues one, of course.

But hey, you go on for a few more pages about the shutter curtains while the rest of use enjoy vastly improved battery life, vastly improved live view, more button options, better metering, USB charging and some internal storage, better high ISO performance, better lowISO performance, longer exposure times, better sensor, improved microlenses, more DR etc... But I get it. An unmeasurable change in shutter dely is a deal breaker.

#facepalm

Gordon

And they could have left the old meter there and made both of us happy.  You are taking one concern I have about responsiveness and sound of the camera way out of context.  I am criticizing one design decision, not the camera as a whole and the improvements you have mentioned.  Impossible to have a reasonable discussion on the internet these days it seems.  I have heard the camera and it is a major step back in terms of sound.  This matters to some of us.  They could have left the old meter there and given us the best of both worlds.  Or implemented EFC.  Hopefully they will do that but somehow I doubt it.  Imagine the battery life that could have been possible also.  Facepalm indeed.

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Herr Barnack

Herr Barnack

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/14/2022 at 7:11 PM, Tailwagger said:

...It's just a camera in a box!!! At first I thought they sent me a Fuji by mistake. What the hell!!!

 

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Edited by Herr Barnack
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neekon

neekon

Posted
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On 2/3/2022 at 8:39 PM, setuporg said:

hey @neekon, checking in how are things on the 34th floor...:)

Going, exclusively using the M11 and loving the images out of it.  
The image quality blows the previous Ms out of the water.  
Thinking it could replace my GFX.  

I have just gotten used to the shutter opening whenever the camera turns on. 

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Tailwagger

Tailwagger

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/3/2022 at 5:08 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

#facepalm

I gave up a week ago or so as I've no interest in continuing to participate in a religious war. That said, such blasphemy should not go unchecked. I suggest we create an M11 Wall of Shame thread. We take down the names of the offenders and monitor their status over the next year or so. As they fall one by one, we'll quote their original posts, heap abuse upon them, then pat them on the back, saying 'there, there, we all make mistakes, confess your sins on these pages and all will be forgiven'. 

Edited by Tailwagger
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shirubadanieru

shirubadanieru

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For those who want the M11, it produces great pictures.

For those who love M8~M10, they produce great pictures.

For those who love M9M~M10M, they produce great pictures.

For those who love film Leicas, they produced great pictures. 

It’s up to you to actually go out and use them and actually make the most out of what they offer you.

Below, M11 —> M9 —> MP. If any of the photos suck it’s because I suck as a photographer, not the cameras :p 

It’s weekend, hopefully it’s sunny out. Grab your gear, go out and share what you do with whichever camera you own. 

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dsalamena

dsalamena

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I remember when the M10 was released we all thought “how can they improve this camera”. Well the answer is that (especially after the M10-R) they couldn’t. Only a few marginal changes that don’t really improve my photography, 60MP actually looks too much (again for my needs). 

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