Leica M12 -- your next camera?

[IkarusJohn]

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23 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Unfortunately the release cycle is driven by the obsolescence cycle of the electronic parts, over which Leica has very little control. 

I don’t agree with this.

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[jaapv]

I’m sure nobody does, certainly not Leica, but the realty is that large electronics firms in East Asia determine the spectrum of products coming to the market  

[IkarusJohn]

14 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I’m sure nobody does, certainly not Leica, but the realty is that large electronics firms in East Asia determine the spectrum of products coming to the market 

I don’t agree with that either.

Suppliers will make what manufacturers will buy.

Edited June 2, 2024 by IkarusJohn

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On 5/22/2024 at 7:52 PM, hjddd said:

there is one thing we can assure， M12 series will have even worse building quality than older models。 If you have every model from M9 to M11-P like me， you will understand what Iam talking about 。 

My M8 shutter failed and Leica upgraded the camera and repaired it no charge. I had both M9 and M9M, both had sensor replaced, Had M240 and M246, loved the results but never liked the thicker heavier bodies with the added video. Next up was an M10 that after not being used for an extended time would not start unless I turned the camera on and off many times, sent back to Leica, "repaired' and then had to send it back again for the same problem.

I have an M11, M11M problem free but to your point about build quality? For me the M11 is the best build quality and feel by far. The black M11 weights 542 grams making it the lightest M digital and lighter than the M7.

I don't have a single build quality issue with the M11 and have never been happier with any of the other M's..I do have nostalgic longings for the M9 but other than that, I feel lucky the M11 exists.

[marchyman]

23 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Suppliers will make what manufacturers will buy.

In volume.  Not enough volume and the product goes away.

Example: A few manufacturers are still willing to buy Z80 processors.  But the current owner of Zilog is discontinuing the processor.   The reason is simple.  A vendor who ships an existing product using the Z80 will buy them as long as their existing product keeps selling.  But no one will design a new product that uses that processor because there are better/faster/cheaper choices out there.

[IkarusJohn]

Of course.

[roma]

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My concern is the price. It’s becoming harder and harder (mentally) to carry a $15k camera/lens combo anywhere I find interesting (usually not the safest of places and at late hours). I may have to try something else for these situations, but I do like using an M the most. Unfortunately, insurance is not available where I am.

Edited June 3, 2024 by roma

[Krusty]

Please have a look at this Video. That would be great for the M11 LiveView  / M12 but also for a manual Lens on a SL3 or for the manual focus of the Q3. The customer-survey is currently running, maybe others like this approach. 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2024 by Krusty

[Smogg]

20 hours ago, Krusty said:

Please have a look at this Video. That would be great for the M11 LiveView  / M12 but also for a manual Lens on a SL3 or for the manual focus of the Q3. The customer-survey is currently running, maybe others like this approach. 

 

 

 

In fact, this technology has already been on Leica for 100 years and works not only with the eyes😂 On Nikon Zf you turn the focus ring until you see a green square. On the Leica M you rotate the focus ring until the eyes or vertical lines line up😂

[Krusty]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Smogg:

In fact, this technology has already been on Leica for 100 years and works not only with the eyes😂 On Nikon Zf you turn the focus ring until you see a green square. On the Leica M you rotate the focus ring until the eyes or vertical lines line up😂

And how do you do this with an R lens on the M11?

[Smogg]

44 minutes ago, Krusty said:

And how do you do this with an R lens on the M11?

It wouldn't even occur to me to use R lenses with the M11. For what?

[T25UFO]

9 minutes ago, Smogg said:

It wouldn't even occur to me to use R lenses with the M11. For what?

Might not occur to you but many do use R lenses, so it remains a valid question 🙂

[Krusty]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Smogg:

It wouldn't even occur to me to use R lenses with the M11. For what?

Because they exist and people have and use them. I have 5 of them. APO-Telyt-R 180 f3.4 on M11 is great… 
 

This feature would also be great in the SL body. This is an appreciation / revaluating of these lenses and this is sustainability.

Or what about focussing a Noctilux or a APO-Telyt-M 135 with the rangefinder? 
 

i think this would be a game-changer for the EVF on the M11 and when there ever be a EVF-only M body, this is a feature should be mandatory.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Krusty

[IkarusJohn]

I use non-RF coupled lenses on my M cameras, with the EVF.  Why not?  Admittedly, the SL is a better universal platform.

[Krusty]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb IkarusJohn:

I use non-RF coupled lenses on my M cameras, with the EVF.  Why not?  Admittedly, the SL is a better universal platform.

And so why not make good things better with that feature..

[IkarusJohn]

27 minutes ago, Krusty said:

And so why not make good things better with that feature..

Which thing better with which feature?

To be honest, my SL is my first choice with other lenses, and with the 0.95 Noctilux and 21 Summilux-M.  But for R lenses, the SL is the best option, with the Leica adapter.

[Krusty]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb IkarusJohn:

Which thing better with which feature?

Focussing.

When you watch the video, you see that the other things, which you prefer (focus peaking, magnification glass) are still existing and you don’t have to use it if you don’t like it.

the problem of the magnification is, that you loose the composition overview. Nikons magnification jumps to the subject and not in the middle or last position.

the problem with focus peaking in 100% view is, that it is sometimes hard to see the exact point. 
 

so why not an additional feature to support the user.

[Josh Rainey]

For that manual focus confirmation to work you need Phase Detect sensor points on the sensor. So you focus without a motor, but the focus confirmation technology is working like normal PD autofocus.

To my knowledge the M11, while using a Sony sensor, doesn't have PD sites on sensor. M12 would likely be the same as you can avoid some artifacts by going without. 

 

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[Krusty]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Josh Rainey:

For that manual focus confirmation to work you need Phase Detect sensor points on the sensor. So you focus without a motor, but the focus confirmation technology is working like normal PD autofocus.

To my knowledge the M11, while using a Sony sensor, doesn't have PD sites on sensor. M12 would likely be the same as you can avoid some artifacts by going without. 

 

But is the M11 Sensor not the same as in Q3 or SL3? 

[jdlaing]

42 minutes ago, Krusty said:

But is the M11 Sensor not the same as in Q3 or SL3? 

I believe the basic wafer might be the same but the image engines are different in all three.