Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

[Tailwagger]

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On 1/14/2022 at 10:40 AM, Tailwagger said:

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Settling in and getting to know the rest of the family.  As is tradition, a quick snapshot of the family.

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[i-Leica]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ecaton:

Skipped the M240, the M10 and was hanging on to the M9 since it hit the market. But this one is calling my name, the lighter, the black version with EVF. Leica, pls put one aside for me.

same for me

[adan]

Uhhhh! Just looking at it makes my back ache!

(Just kidding - expect you are getting great pleasure from all the members. And 5 cameras ain't bad - counting backups and MF film cameras, I have five also! Six if I count my old high-school Diana - sitting on a shelf for sentimental reasons)

1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

Settling in and getting to know the rest of the family.  As is tradition, a quick snapshot of the family.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

[adan]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Competition? I believe Pixii is the only "competition."

For those of us sold on the RF focusing and viewing and/or M lenses - with digital - that's probably true.

But when I see the number of comparisons, even on this forum, with Nikon Z, Sony Alpha, Fuji X and so on, it's clear that there are many others who see those as competition Leica has to beat, above and beyond the RF/VF, or the "history."

"Competition" is anyone or anything that someone can spend their money on, instead. It is a Darwinian fact of life, economics, and even art - which one ignores at one's peril.

[Tailwagger]

2 minutes ago, adan said:

Uhhhh! Just looking at it makes my back ache!

Indeed. All was fine really until the SL2 showed up.  The curvature in my spine grew 3 degrees that day.  Talk about erect style disfunction.  😃

[adan]

3 hours ago, pgk said:

My problem is that I cannot shoot everything on Leica Ms so I have to have another system. This significantly increases my costs. Factor in a second body and the M11 is looking like too much of an expensive luxury to be a 'pro' camera unfortunately.

Understood. I have been there and done that.

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

His response was "I still see 180mm pictures;' - I just don't have to take them anymore."

Which was an epiphany I was already coming to on my own. I don't have to satisfy every customer that comes to me. I can do exactly what the hell I want (which is work exclusively* with Leica M), and still get enough sales to pay the bills.

I do have a Canon 5D2 sitting around, with a 300 + TC for the wildlife or sports shots. Haven't actually had to use it for 5 years or so, because the M (21-135) has been enough to handle everything I choose to take on. But it is a (relatively cheap) "security blanket."

(*Caveat - I've also been making inroads with 6x6 film, But again that is my creative choice, not a requirement. And the 6x6 film cameras can't be updated any more, so no rat race )

[Keith (M)]

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I like the idea of the M11 and its improved performance/features etc compared with my M240 (a porky beast compared with my M10M and M7).  However, checking file numbers I see that in almost two years of M10M ownership I have clocked up just circa 600 photos with the M240.  Muddying the water somewhat is my A7III + Novoflex M lens adapter.  Hmm, some wrestling with my conscience (and bank balance) required prior to a decision, me thinks.

[M11 for me]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb adan:

Understood. I have been there and done that.

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

His response was "I still see 180mm pictures;' - I just don't have to take them anymore."

Which was an epiphany I was already coming to on my own. I don't have to satisfy every customer that comes to me. I can do exactly what the hell I want (which is work exclusively* with Leica M), and still get enough sales to pay the bills.

I do have a Canon 5D2 sitting around, with a 300 + TC for the wildlife or sports shots. Haven't actually had to use it for 5 years or so, because the M (21-135) has been enough to handle everything I choose to take on. But it is a (relatively cheap) "security blanket."

(*Caveat - I've also been making inroads with 6x6 film, But again that is my creative choice, not a requirement. And the 6x6 film cameras can't be updated any more, so no rat race )

I absolutely envy you and I would like to do the same. First of all: Normally I have the M10 hanging on my neck with (most probably) my 28mm Summicron attached. Now my "problem": I need AF. For this reason I have the R5 mainly with 50mm 1.2 (RF) and 135mm 2.0 (EF). If I could use the focus fast enough on my M I could probably be without Canon. 

[Masukami]

5 hours ago, adan said:

There is a factor that tends to get ignored on a forum of current Leica users.

It is not just about "upgrading" by people who already own an M10/9/240.

How important is it for Leica to appeal to non-Leica users? Against the competition? How does Leica grow their market, not simply maintain it?

I expect a lot of first time Leica users buy secondhand. I certainly did. If that is correct, then upgrades are growing their share (assuming the people who sold them the secondhand bodies are also upgrading). 

[pgk]

23 minutes ago, adan said:

Understood. I have been there and done that.

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

His response was "I still see 180mm pictures;' - I just don't have to take them anymore."

Problem is that I also shoot underwater - Sony A7 system - also for macro, copying, old lenses, etc. I do have an Sl for some of this too, but adding an M11 isn't going to happen at the price.

[Sergius]

2 hours ago, adan said:

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

David Alan Harvey ?

[goodbokeh]

A question about the M11 that I have not seen asked or answered is this: With the shutter open for constant sensor metering subsequent shutter re-cocking and travel is needed before a photo is taken. Does the M11 have shutter shock because of this action with the absence of Electronic First Curtain Shutter (EFCS)? Shutter shock was a constant problem for other mirrorless camera models that required EFCS to be implemented across the board by many camera companies. I understand the SL2 & SL2-S also lack EFCS, I don't know why.

I'm very concerned about M11 shutter shock, somebody should be addressing this issue head-on but it's been crickets from what I've read so far.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Artin said:

+1. That would be the smartest move they can make, it would invite a ton of new users to the system. But Leica has only once in their history tried that, it was the Leica CL. During the M5 era.  

No, Leica M-E, S-E, SL2-S, etc, often near end of a product cycle.

Jeff

[adan]

2 hours ago, Sergius said:

David Alan Harvey ?

Yes.

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, goodbokeh said:

I'm very concerned about M11 shutter shock, somebody should be addressing this issue head-on but it's been crickets from what I've read so far.

Perhaps because it's not much of an issue?  Quick shot just for you.  It's a little frustrating using these pages to attempt to prove something is sharp but take my word for it, one can see the individual nose hairs are clean. And obviously low shutter speed as I caught an ear wiggle. 

50mm 'lux  ISO 1000 F2 1/50"   A bit of sharpening done just for emphasis.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

.

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Tailwagger

[adan]

1 hour ago, goodbokeh said:

A question about the M11 that I have not seen asked or answered is this: With the shutter open for constant sensor metering subsequent shutter re-cocking and travel is needed before a photo is taken. Does the M11 have shutter shock because of this action with the absence of Electronic First Curtain Shutter (EFCS)? Shutter shock was a constant problem for other mirrorless camera models that required EFCS to be implemented across the board by many camera companies. I understand the SL2 & SL2-S also lack EFCS, I don't know why.

I'm very concerned about M11 shutter shock, somebody should be addressing this issue head-on but it's been crickets from what I've read so far.

You need to look at the formal review threads, and some specific threads on exactly the questions you ask.

Because it is rather wasteful to repeat the 10s or 100s of answers you can already find there.

They are right here in the M11 subforum - two clicks from this thread.

[harmen]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

Problem is that I also shoot underwater - Sony A7 system - also for macro, copying, old lenses, etc. I do have an Sl for some of this too, but adding an M11 isn't going to happen at the price.

Underwater… then the actual camera is a mere fraction of the cost of the system.  But, yes, it does make an M an addition.

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

A question about the M11 that I have not seen asked or answered is this: With the shutter open for constant sensor metering subsequent shutter re-cocking and travel is needed before a photo is taken. Does the M11 have shutter shock because of this action with the absence of Electronic First Curtain Shutter (EFCS)? Shutter shock was a constant problem for other mirrorless camera models that required EFCS to be implemented across the board by many camera companies. I understand the SL2 & SL2-S also lack EFCS, I don't know why.

I'm very concerned about M11 shutter shock, somebody should be addressing this issue head-on but it's been crickets from what I've read so far.

It’s not a big issue. The M11 comes with the same well dampened shutter as the M10-P (shutter sound comparisons https://youtu.be/0FSV9Jp3Xbo), M shooters hardly ever use long focal lengths, and the reviewers mostly agree that the camera needs to be shot at shutter speeds 2f (depending on one’s technique) to avoid camera shake.

Note that Jim Kasson does the shutter shock test on the Z7 with a 125 mm lens. https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/shutter-shock-and-the-nikon-z7/ I shot the Z7 with M lenses and shutter shock was never an issue.

An excerpt below:

https://photographylife.com/what-is-electronic-front-curtain-shutter

However, don’t be too scared of it, since it is not something you will see in every image, as shutter shock only happens under particular conditions, such as the following:

At particular shutter speeds relative to the focal length of the lens. The typical danger zone is 1/2 to 1/50th of a second for most lenses.

When using long focal length lenses (telephoto and supertelephoto) and relatively slow shutter speeds (typically below reciprocal rule values).

When using a camera with an undamped / loud shutter mechanism.

So if your camera has a damped shutter mechanism and you are using relatively fast shutter speeds or very slow shutter speeds longer than 1 second, you should be able to avoid shutter shock in your images.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Chaemono

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Hallo,

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[rramesh]

The M is primarily a rangefinder.

I like features that improve the rangefinder experience and I am quite happy with the M10-Ps near silent shutter and low light performance coupled with what enhancements in post-processing software can do today e.g. Topaz, ON1 etc.

With the advancements in CMOS sensor technology, focus confirmation and possibly even focus lock would have been nice though. Maybe it will show up in a future model.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by rramesh

[rramesh]

7 minutes ago, Artin said:

Ahhh focus lock ?  On a manual focus camera ? 

I can think of many ways. One maybe such as below:

• Use the electronic shutter
• Point a cross hair in the optical viewfinder at the desired point of focus with a Fn/shutter button pressed
• Adjust focus manually using the rangefinder patch and the cross hair
• When there is focus confirmation (say a green LED in the viewfinder), the electronic shutter automatically take the photo.