Leica SL 21,.. plz

[beewee]

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It’s also worth adding that the focal ‘plane’ is not really flat, especially at close distances, for the vast majority of lenses except telelphoto lenses and maybe something like the Summicron SL line at wider focal lengths.

[Stuart Richardson]

In my experience as a printer, apparent DOF decreases with magnification and with higher resolution cameras (assuming you utilize that resolution). The closer you look, the shallower the depth of field. And yes, when I say the plane of focus, I realize that it is not necessarily flat, (or parellel to the sensor/film, as of course you can adjust it with a view camera or tilt shift lens). But this is not a hill I am wiling to die on. Based on the conviction that you have Jaap, I assume you are right. But at least in my experience as a printer, the higher the resolution the camera, the shallower the apparent DOF and the more critical it is that focus is carefully placed.

[Michael Markey]

On 12/14/2021 at 11:21 PM, Andrew Gough said:

 Sure my R5 is faster, but not everyone is shooting sports. My TS lenses some how focus at the same speed on the SL2 and the R5. 😁

Off topic

Edited December 24, 2021 by Michael Markey

[Michael Markey]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:20 AM, Simone_DF said:

Leica is a small company, they don't have enough manpower to develop a full fledged modern AF system from scratch. Even a simple effort like their mobile app is half assed and crippled in even basic functionalities, clearly software development is not Leica's strenght, and that's fine. 

Off topic.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Michael Markey

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

In my experience as a printer, apparent DOF decreases with magnification and with higher resolution cameras (assuming you utilize that resolution). The closer you look, the shallower the depth of field. And yes, when I say the plane of focus, I realize that it is not necessarily flat, (or parellel to the sensor/film, as of course you can adjust it with a view camera or tilt shift lens). But this is not a hill I am wiling to die on. Based on the conviction that you have Jaap, I assume you are right. But at least in my experience as a printer, the higher the resolution the camera, the shallower the apparent DOF and the more critical it is that focus is carefully placed.

The bolded statement above is only the case if you look at the outputs of different sizes. In my book, we should always compare at the same output size.

[Andrew Gough]

16 hours ago, jaapv said:

Sorry Stuart   but you are simply wrong. The plane of focus is in the middle to 2/3rd of the DOF (depending on subject distance) and the definition by resolution  of that plane has nothing to do with the size of the gradient of acceptable unsharpness AKA DOF. I think you are confusing this with the potential ability  to print larger with higher resolution (a different discussion-what resolution does one need to print to any size  ) which will affect DOF providing the viewing distance remains the same   

In a way, you are both correct. However, Stuart is also correct. The depth of field is much smaller as you approach the minimum focusing distance of a lens. Let's take a 28mm F/2.0 at 1 meter, it will have a depth of field of 0.15 meter. The same lens focused at 10 meters will have a depth of field of 36.55 meters. Hyperfocal distance is not necessarily on the sharpest point of focus, since it looks to place the far depth of field focus limit closer to infinity. I think that Stuart was simply stating that is seems much more logical to use an AF lens on an AF camera. 

The attraction of the SL lenses is that they have very flat planes of focus by design. This helps them achieve the look of a faster lens in the OOF region. Looking at the MTF's for the SL 28mm summicron, and M lenses none of the M lenses are remotely close to the same flat plane of focus vs the SL lens. Even the newer 28mm Summicron exhibits greater field curvature. Sometimes, these qualities may be desirable, depending upon the planned use - landscape for example. But the flatness of the SL lenses, and the faster transition to the out of focus region does make the use of AF more accurate desirable when using the lens wide open.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Andrew Gough

[caissa]

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On 12/15/2021 at 3:06 AM, Virob said:

I wasn’t planning on investing in the L mount until the 21SL was available. A good deal on a local SL2 changed that. 21 is probably my favourite focal length and is the Leica lens I’m most interested in. Based on the 28SL release  however, I’m not expecting to see it for another year or more, but would welcome being proved wrong. Seriously considering moving on. Anyone have experience with the Zeiss milvus 21/2.8?

Before I got the SL 16-35 I used an adapted Contax  Distagon 2.8/21, and I liked the lens very much for landscape. The milvus is probably very close to the older lens. So in a way I can recommend it. 😉 

[caissa]

On 12/22/2021 at 5:48 PM, jrp said:

I agree that it’s good to have the choices that the l-mount alliance offers.

Has anyone tried a selection of the, say 24mm lenses available in f1.8, f2 or f3.5, and come to any general conclusions?  Yes, there will be an edge sharpness difference, but colour / warmth, global / micro contrast, are also likely to be signature for each lens range.  Price is also a factor. I might buy a sub-£500 lens as a stop gap, until the Leicas are released, but probably not a £900 one. 

Yes the choice is good. But when I had a closer look at the Pana 1.8 lenses I was “disappointed”. They may be ok optically, but they are light and plasticky. They give me a bad feeling (no trust in the quality). Probably better for video, which is not my business.

So in the end Sigma seems the only alternative. They feel quite sturdy.

[Virob]

13 hours ago, caissa said:

Before I got the SL 16-35 I used an adapted Contax  Distagon 2.8/21, and I liked the lens very much for landscape. The milvus is probably very close to the older lens. So in a way I can recommend it. 😉 

Thanks for the recommendation. I had that same distagon when I was using Contax and is the lens that got me hooked on the 21mm focal length.  
I nearly jumped on a mint used voigtlander 21/1.4 just as the announcement for the Sigma 20/2 came out, At this point, the sigma has me very interested and would nicely compliment my 65/2 and Q2.

[robb]

I am definitely ready to add the SL 21 summicron so I hope Leica can wrap up their plans and get those moving to buyers soon!  
Robb

[beewee]

2 hours ago, robb said:

I am definitely ready to add the SL 21 summicron so I hope Leica can wrap up their plans and get those moving to buyers soon!  
Robb

Basing purely on past release schedules, if I had to bet, I would say the 24 APO SL will be released in the next 60 days and the 21 APO SL no earlier than Aug 2022. More likely, given supply chain disruptions and such, the 21 APO SL will arrive in Feb 2023.

[Gavin Cato]

I'll buy a 21 the day it comes out. Why on earth they prioritised the 28 when most SL owners already had the 35/2 is truly beyond me.

 

[MediaFotografie]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Gavin Cato:

I'll buy a 21 the day it comes out. Why on earth they prioritised the 28 when most SL owners already had the 35/2 is truly beyond me.

 

that also surprised me - and it would be a shame if the 24mm came first (but unfortunately it is to be expected)

28, 24 and 21 will form the Wide Angle platform after a talk by Peter Karbe at the end of 2019

 

 

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[Andrew Gough]

Any word on the 24mm SL APO Summicron? The 35mm was announced in Feb/2019 and the 28mm in Feb 2021. Could we see a 24mm next month?

[Chun Chang]

I too look forward to 21/2 APO.  In the meantime I am quite surprised by the Voigtlander 21/1.4.  Reminds me of the Zeiss Loxia 21 in the way it captures landscapes. Quite remarkable for a lens at that price point.  Added benefit is swapping to M body for low light wide angle shots with excellent out of focus rendering.

[Chuck Albertson]

6 hours ago, Andrew Gough said:

Any word on the 24mm SL APO Summicron? The 35mm was announced in Feb/2019 and the 28mm in Feb 2021. Could we see a 24mm next month?

That's what is being unveiled on Jan 13. All that "M11" guff is just a smokescreen for the big announcement.

[Andrew Gough]

4 hours ago, Chuck Albertson said:

That's what is being unveiled on Jan 13. All that "M11" guff is just a smokescreen for the big announcement.

I love the fake video's!

[Virob]

Another 21 mm option. 😄

https://irixlens.com/cine-lenses/21mm/

Never heard of Irix up until now. Looks high quality, but it’s huge.

[aksclix]

4 hours ago, Virob said:

Another 21 mm option. 😄

https://irixlens.com/cine-lenses/21mm/

Never heard of Irix up until now. Looks high quality, but it’s huge.

IRIX has been around a while.. they had some great wide angle lenses for the DSLR market.. they were called firefly and black stone models.. they also had a beautiful 150 f2.8 macro for DSLRs.. also a great lens! All manual focus.. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[tom0511]

Informsure agree Leica should offer a 21 sl lens.

however I have to say the 16-35 is -imo- exceptionally good lens. Just recently compared to the M wate and m 21/3.4 and wow. 
irs not f2.0 but even with f2.0 you wont get any shallow dof look, except maybe when photographing at very low distance.

I sometimes carry the m 21.3.4 with the sl2, but itnstays in the back most times. In theory I dont need af for 21mm. But it would be more comfortable, compared to open fstop, press magnifying button, focus , recompose, close fstop (which you cant see un the viewfinder) , shoot. You can probably skip opening and closing fstop with the 21mm focal length.