Unveiling M11?

[willeica]

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3 hours ago, Artin said:

One thing I have noticed on the M10R. the metering does have a very different pattern then the 240. I am constantly correcting exposure during shooting with the M10R, where with the 240 it was just set it and forget it.

I find digital Ms to be very 'pointy', as regards exposure. Maybe my M10 has some issue with the sensor, but I usually have to take a reading off a mid grey point even when using auto-exposure and then hold that. Any bit of sky in the frame will usually result in under exposure. It seems to be getting even more like this as time goes on. I still have my M9 and M240 and , if I can find the time, I will do some tests and comparisons. I have a lot of experience with exposure and I can adjust, but the M cameras do not seem to have the full scene matrix metering found in other digital cameras. Hopefully, the M11 will bring some improvements in this regard.

William 

Edited December 16, 2021 by willeica

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[Jeff S]

20 minutes ago, willeica said:

I have a lot of experience with exposure and I can adjust, but the M cameras do not seem to have the full scene matrix metering found in other digital cameras. Hopefully, the M11 will bring some improvements in this regard.

William 

Depends if you’re using ‘classic’ metering, which is well documented and basically unchanged from M9 days, or off the sensor modes…

Jeff

[Foxtwo]

Will you geeks restrain yourselves for a few weeks and get back to speculating about the Great Unveiling? 

I think they’re simply changing the Leica Logo…it’s “Iconic”, right? 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Foxtwo

[Chaemono]

The sensor must be a version of the α7R IV sensor which has great ‘push-ability’ (exposure latitude) of high ISO files (3200 and 6400) in high contrast scenes.

[01maciel]

I didn’t get an invite which means in turn, I haven't spent enough money for Leica equipment to be worth being a member of the inner cirlce 😲

[Mikep996]

"The only way to avoid clipping is to underexpose, aka, metering variations."

Same as slide film...digital acts exactly the same way - clipped highlights are gone; there is no magic ro recover them.  You can change the exposure profile yourself - ie, dial in some amount of underexposure, meter/expose specifically for the highlights,  or the camera firmware can have it programmed in so that it provides the underexposure "automatically."  Of course, camera firmware nowadays can automatically do it all...'correct" the highlights AND shadows as the iPhone/other smart phone cameras demonstrate every day!  

As far as the unveiling is concerned - I suppose a new EVF, if smaller, more elegant (and made of metal) would be a good thing though for my use the current one works fine.  If it was a the only VF on the camera, I wouldn't feel that way but I use it probably 20% of the time and despite its clunky-ness and plastic composition, I'm quite happy with it functionally.  

Silly as it sounds, If the M11 does not have a base plate it would put me off a bit even if I could afford to buy an M11.  I bought my first Leica in the 90's, an old M2.  This was the result of years of being told, "Leica is the best camera!"  In almost all cases, this was espoused by friends/fellow amateur photogs who had never owned/used a Leica!    After many years of using Canon, Nikon, Pentax SLRs, I thought the bottom plate was the dumbest/most annoying thing I had ever seen on a camera.  But, after more Leicas - M6, M7, current M10 - I'm used to it and now, it just seems "wrong" for a Leica M to not have a base plate! 😱  OTOH, if someone gave me an M11, I'm sure I'd get used to it very quickly!  

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Mikep996

[willeica]

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8 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Depends if you’re using ‘classic’ metering, which is well documented and basically unchanged from M9 days, or off the sensor modes…

Jeff

I've used both modes and there is not much difference. As Artin says, Nikon has had superb matrix metering for many years. I prefer Leica Ms, not least because of their outstanding lenses and small size, but the lack of a top grade electronic exposure system is annoying. That is why I hope there is a step forward with the M11. I shoot a lot of with Leica manual film cameras, often without a meter of any kind, but there I have the latitude of film to work with as well. I'll award Leica a 'must try harder' for the time being with its digital M metering.

William 

[ianman]

9 hours ago, Artin said:

I agree the metering is in the Dark ages as far as M cameras go

Very true. But it’s not we don’t know that when we buy them.

[Mikep996]

Even on my most current Nikon DSLRs, I am most comfortable shooting with good old center-weighted metering.   I don't see any issue with the M metering and use it just as I did way back in my SLR/slide film days.  Heck, if I need a perfect, out-of-the camera pic, I use my iPhone!  

[jaapv]

And there are excellent exposure meter apps for your iPhone too

[SrMi]

21 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Absoluytely agree on the 24 megapixels being the sweet spot.

 

Quote from Jono (Mike Evans: Leica M10: Is it the quintessential digital rangefinder?)

I always thought that 24mp was the ‘sweet spot’ but when the M10-R hit my desk in July 2019 I realised I was very wrong.

I agree with Jono, again.

[SrMi]

23 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I have the M10-R and use it every day. The best Leica M ever made. Still think 24 megapixels is the sweet spot. But thankfully everyone' s opinion is different.

From the same article by the author: "However, I fully accept that more megapixels are necessary if the M11 is to remain competitive until 2026. It’s just that many owners feel they can do without them."

I do not think that Leica has many choices about the sensor resolution. The latest Sony sensor is +60Mp, used in a7rIV and GFX100 (100Mp because of larger sensor size). So it would not make sense to launch a new camera with a sensor older than currently available.

[Ba Erv]

Lenny told me a cool hat is more important than megapixels.😎

[jdlaing]

25 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

There are 3 Multi-Focal RF-coupled lenses made available for the Leica M - the WATE, MATE and Hexanon-M 21-35.

Only one of those is “available”. The other two are out of production for years now. If you’re lucky you can get a fair example of them.

[SrMi]

59 minutes ago, Artin said:

It makes perfect sense, given the fact that there is no chance of Zoom lenses for the M , the quality of the Fast lenses available for the M..... 60mpx will make the platform into a very versatile imaging system. the ability to crop with a 60mpx sensor will be a huge game changer. I wish IBIS was part of this new platform but as it is I am very excited so far.

I can say that it put my venture into the Nikon Z system on hold. 

Continuous zoom and rangefinder focusing is not possible, therefore it is unlikely that there will be true zoom M-lenses (adapted from P. Karbe's Q&A session).

[jdlaing]

20 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

They are all available for those who seek them - on the vast used market. I did not write "available new from the store".

It’s good you clarified that. Finding a good clean copy of the MATE and dual 21-35 is very rare.

[Jeff S]

15 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Continuous zoom and rangefinder focusing is not possible, therefore it is unlikely that there will be true zoom M-lenses (adapted from P. Karbe's Q&A session).

The WATE operates as a continuous zoom, unlike the MATE, but the RF does have its limitations. But even the superb new 35 APO has RF limitations (close focus range), at least on current M bodies. 

Jeff

[Danner]

Time to list your super-clean M10's at bargain prices.  I'll be watching for one 😉

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[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, jdlaing said:

Finding a good clean copy of the MATE and dual 21-35 is very rare.

Here's a really clean one 😳

https://www.schouten-select.nl/index.php/products/leica/leica-m-systeem/leica-m-systeem-lenzen/leica-28mm-m-systeem-lenzen/leica-28-35-50mm-f4-tri-elmar-historica-silver-box.html?___SID=U

Jeff

[Jeff S]

Hence the emoji 😳

But there are others around.  Leica SoHo, for instance, often has one or more… one now for $3k.  But always best if it’s had a recent Leica service, as the one I bought from SoHo, which I’ve since sold. 

Jeff