TTArtisan 28mm f5.6

[jdlaing]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, willeica said:

 

I am aware of all of that. I was just pointing out the issues involved in comparing US and European prices. To the point about European VAT rates varying, companies such as Leica tend to apply the same price across the Eurozone irrespective of local rates. This affects Governments more than consumers who pay the same price everywhere. Britain is a law unto itself and was even before Brexit, because it has its own currency with fluctuating exchange rates v the Euro. I don't spend much time thinking about the 'injustice' of certain prices because, as I live in the Euro-zone, I have a wide range of choices about where I can purchase goods without paying additional taxes. Importing from the US is not an option that I ever consider except when I support Dan Tamarkin's Auction. I buy items at UK auctions from time to time, but only where the item is a rare one that I want and I can justify the additional import charges.

There is no such thing as a 'right price'. You find out what the price is and then decide whether it is justified for you. Retailers/sellers/auctioneers are under no legal obligation to sell at a particular price unless they have entered into legal agreements with manufacturers/distributors, but such agreements must comply with competition law etc. 

William

My reply was to Nigel regarding the New York tax.

[Guest]

Just imagine if the TT artisan lens is just as good or bad maybe?  as the leica remake of the original lens,what shall the leica snobs do then? 

Maybe claim it is sharper at the edge of the frame and does not vignette as dramatically as the remake of the 50's original and is therefore invalid ?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Simone_DF]

The optical design is different compared to the Summaron. 

By looking at the optical design and the MFT charts, I thnk the TTArtisan has a more modern rendering and it's definitely sharper in the corners, at least on paper. We'll see once lens samples and reviews start popping up. I'm considering getting one!

TTArtisan:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Summaron:

 

[willeica]

7 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

what shall the leica snobs do then? 

I am not a 'Leica snob', whatever that might be, but like many collectors I already had the original version of the lens. I bought it before Leica produced the recent copy, but it is so good that I did not have to consider buying the new version. I also have the hood for the original lens which is quite an expensive item these days.

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

By looking at the optical design and the MFT charts, I thnk the TTArtisan has a more modern rendering and it's definitely sharper in the corners, at least on paper. We'll see once lens samples and reviews start popping up. I'm considering getting one!

It should be 'better' as it is 66 years since the original one appeared. However, the 1955 lens is good enough for me and it definitely has character, something I value even more than sharpness. The comparison should be between the current Leica lens and this one, of course, if that is important for any potential purchaser of either. 

I am still trying to figure out what Leica's strategy is here. The number of M lens copies from China seems likely to increase over time.

William

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, willeica said:

It should be 'better' as it is 66 years since the original one appeared. However, the 1955 lens is good enough for me and it definitely has character, something I value even more than sharpness. The comparison should be between the current Leica lens and this one, of course, if that is important for any potential purchaser of either. 

I am still trying to figure out what Leica's strategy is here. The number of M lens copies from China seems likely to increase over time.

I absolutely agree with your statement, and that's why I carefully avoided to mention "better". I just said it's sharper, but sharper doesn't necessarily mean "better". Some people prefer "character", others more "modern" rendering. There's no right or wrong, just a matter of personal preferences. My reason for getting the TTA is the compact form factor and the price. I can afford to get the Summaron, but I'm not willing to pay 2300€ for a f/5.6 lens.

I think Leica has not too much to worry from the Chinese copies, they serve a different market with little overlap. The real threat is Voigtlander, which is offering an extremely competitive price/performance ratio compared to any Leica lens released in the past 2 years.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Simone_DF

[pippy]

1 hour ago, willeica said:

...(the TTA)...should be 'better' as it is 66 years since the original one appeared. However, the 1955 lens is good enough for me and it definitely has character, something I value even more than sharpness. The comparison should be between the current Leica lens and this one, of course, if that is important for any potential purchaser of either...

I agree, William, that the likelihood is that the TTA will be sharper and (probably) exhibit less vignetting - and a very superficial glance at the optical design posted by Simone_DF would appear to back that idea up - and so, for my way of thinking, the TTA shouldn't be viewed as a direct replacement for the original but simply as an 'alternative' which might have a different signature. Choice is Good.

As far as original designs are concerned; for over 40 years I've been perfectly happy with the way my '54 35mm f3.5 Summaron (M2 version) renders. It exhibits zero distortion (which is important for much of my photography) and is easily as sharp as I would ever need. If, as I suspect, that this design was first made available in 1946 that means a 75-y-o design is still perfectly able to compete (IMO) with anything on the market today and although its f3.5 max. aperture is rather 'slow' by comparison it is still 1 1/2 stops faster than the lenses we are discussing here.

Philip.

Edited November 30, 2021 by pippy

[Rangeman133]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've not read this thread yet, but will return to it, because I'm interested in what others think about this line of lenses.

From my very limited use/personal experience - I bought (and returned) their 28mm f/1.4 M mount lens. At the time, I used in only the M8. I was very surprised by it. I don't pixel peep at all. I've not started printing my own photos yet, so maybe what i say won't have relevance to some people here, but overall, I was impressed with the results. the lens felt premium in the hand, the packaging was absolutely stellar. On the M8, it produced amazing results, even wide open for my own tastes.

I ultimately returned it, mainly because of the size of it, and it blocked too much of the viewfinder to liking. It was also quite heavy. For reference, I'm currently using the 35mm skopar 2.5, and I use a 35mm 2.8 sonnar for my sony system (I like to travel light). 

If one can oversee these things, then for a fraction of the Leica equivalent, you would be doing disservice to yourself if you totally ignore the lens, just because it is not a Leica. Having said that, if you can afford the Leica 28mm, then get that, because then size won't be an issue, and perhaps it's not as heavy either?

[Simone_DF]

10 minutes ago, Rangeman133 said:

From my very limited use/personal experience - I bought (and returned) their 28mm f/1.4 M mount lens.

I think you're confusing 7 Artisans with TT Artisan. They are two different companies.

[Rangeman133]

4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

The real threat is Voigtlander, which is offering an extremely competitive price/performance ratio compared to any Leica lens released in the past 2 years.

+1

In my previous post, I was going to mention just this. It almost feels like Voigtlander are producing lenses at a really fast rate. However, I think many of them are just cosmetically updated?  As for quality, they are definitely up there. Every year I have been following the increased prices of Leica lenses, I'm sure there must be a point of diminishing returns? Having said all this, I will play devils advocate, because I have a 50mm summicron, and I don't think there is a better lens that exists today lol. of course, this is my very personal, and humble opinion, and an opinion formed because of an attachment to the photos i've already taken with this lens. i think it's just human nature to defend things that we have already committed allegiance to. To do otherwise, would be like denying something deep within us, whether consciously or subconsciously! And this can be painful. Of course, I don't think this is healthy, but at least acknowledging it, is perhaps healthy enough.

[Rangeman133]

3 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I think you're confusing 7 Artisans with TT Artisan. They are two different companies.

OOPS! 

Yes you are right.

-The TT Artisan lens sucks! (haha, i'm totally joking, i don't know anything about the TT Artisans, or the company - only that it exists, and that I may have browsed through it, before going with the 7Artisans haha)

 

 

[Simone_DF]

4 minutes ago, Rangeman133 said:

However, I think many of them are just cosmetically updated?  

Some of them are just cosmetic updates, like the 21mm coming out in December, others are brand new, like the 90mm APO also coming out next month.

--

I had the 7A 50mm F/1.1, it was an interesting lens and I got some nice photos out of it, but in the end I sold it because I had 4 more 50mm lenses 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, willeica said:

I am not a 'Leica snob', whatever that might be, but like many collectors I already had the original version of the lens. I bought it before Leica produced the recent copy, but it is so good that I did not have to consider buying the new version. I also have the hood for the original lens which is quite an expensive item these days.

It should be 'better' as it is 66 years since the original one appeared. However, the 1955 lens is good enough for me and it definitely has character, something I value even more than sharpness. The comparison should be between the current Leica lens and this one, of course, if that is important for any potential purchaser of either. 

I am still trying to figure out what Leica's strategy is here. The number of M lens copies from China seems likely to increase over time.

William

Not saying you are a leica snob william but some on here are without a doubt.

I believe TT artisans have raised the quality bar compared to 7 artisans with some of their lenses like the noctilux copy and the super fast 90mm lens which at least makes it interesting to see how they interpret the 28mm f5.6 "copy".

My take on TT artisans is they are leica lovers producing nice decent quality lenses as a cheaper option to leica,

The 50mm f0.95 lens they make is flawed but so are all the leica noctilux versions but the TT version is the only f0.95 lens in the world i can afford to buy, 

[ianman]

On 11/30/2021 at 11:09 AM, Simone_DF said:

I can afford to get the Summaron, but I'm not willing to pay 2300€ for a f/5.6 lens.

I agreed with everything you wrote but I don't understand this statement. Surely the rendering of the lens is what gives it value for you rather than the max aperture. I would pay more for a f/5.6 than a faster lens if the rendering is what I prefer.

[willeica]

9 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

Not saying you are a leica snob william but some on here are without a doubt.

I believe TT artisans have raised the quality bar compared to 7 artisans with some of their lenses like the noctilux copy and the super fast 90mm lens which at least makes it interesting to see how they interpret the 28mm f5.6 "copy".

My take on TT artisans is they are leica lovers producing nice decent quality lenses as a cheaper option to leica,

The 50mm f0.95 lens they make is flawed but so are all the leica noctilux versions but the TT version is the only f0.95 lens in the world i can afford to buy, 

There has been a torrent of lenses for Leica M mount coming onto the market recently. Some are copies of actual Leica lenses and others are lenses which Leica does not make, such as some macro lenses in M mount which I saw recently. Some of this has been aided by the Live View and Visoflex options now available on digital Ms. Not all of those designs and brands will succeed, but now is a good time to be a Leica M owner as many lens options are available, some, as you say, at very affordable prices. Leica has plenty of lenses available too, but it did close down most of its relatively cheap modern Summarit options. This decision by Leica may have also attracted further market entry. It should be obvious from the L mount deal that Leica does not per se seem to mind the use of other lens brands on its cameras. As far as I know, Leica has not licensed the use of the M mount, but that design has been in use since the 1950s. Interesting times indeed. 

William 

[Simone_DF]

16 minutes ago, ianman said:

I agreed with everything you wrote but I don't understand this statement. Surely the rendering of the lens is what gives it value for you rather than the max aperture. I would pay more for a f/5.6 than a faster lens if the rendering is what I prefer.

Sure, but I currently don't have a 28mm lens and I happen to shot often in low light, and therefore I would prefer to get something more versatile like the Voigtlander Ultron or the Summicron. A Summaron would be my "fun" lens but not my main lens. I don't really want to spend over 2k for that, but 300/400€ is ok.

[Simone_DF]

25 minutes ago, willeica said:

It should be obvious from the L mount deal that Leica does not per se seem to mind the use of other lens brands on its cameras.

The L mount deal is a different thing though. The SL was in dire need of more lenses, without Panasonic and Sigma pouring their effort into the mount, the SL would be dead. When it first launched, the SL was a precursor and the only game in town in the mirrorless market, together with the first gens Sony A7. A few years later, it has to compete in a very aggressive market.

[cboy]

Looks stellar. I hope they make a black anodised one which became rare for the rereleased Leica summaron.

I wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue. And if there isnt I wonder if ttarisan will continue to do more replica like lenses lol

Edited December 1, 2021 by cboy

[a.noctilux]

As post #63, this TTArtisan is not Summaron-M 28mm Replica, not same optical figure

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326776-ttartisan-28mm-f56/?do=findComment&comment=4323022

 

[willeica]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

The L mount deal is a different thing though. The SL was in dire need of more lenses, without Panasonic and Sigma pouring their effort into the mount, the SL would be dead. When it first launched, the SL was a precursor and the only game in town in the mirrorless market, together with the first gens Sony A7. A few years later, it has to compete in a very aggressive market.

I am aware of that. My comparison related to the principle of other manufacturers using the same lens mount. As I pointed out, there are license fees to be earned with the L mount , but not, at this stage, with the M mount.

William 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[KFo]

It's a 37mm filter not a 34 as with the Summaron.