TTArtisan 28mm f5.6

[Gobert]

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5 hours ago, cboy said:

Looks stellar. I hope they make a black anodised one which became rare for the rereleased Leica summaron.

I wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue. And if there isnt I wonder if ttarisan will continue to do more replica like lenses lol

I don’t expect patent issues, it is just a sad company policy.

[derleicaman]

3 hours ago, Gobert said:

I don’t expect patent issues, it is just a sad company policy.

Patents on the M mount have long expired, so that is not an issue. What is the sad company policy you refer to? On behalf of Leica or TT Artisan?

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[Gobert]

9 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Patents on the M mount have long expired, so that is not an issue. What is the sad company policy you refer to? On behalf of Leica or TT Artisan?

TT Artisan. They are good enough to make own designed lenses in stead of copies of old designs. I will never buy those, regardless how cheap they are.

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, Gobert said:

TT Artisan. They are good enough to make own designed lenses in stead of copies of old designs. I will never buy those, regardless how cheap they are.

Then what about Leica literally getting the Sigma 24-70 in a different casing, slapping a red dot on it and sell it at 2,5x the price? Isn't that a "sad policy"?

And don't get me started on the rebranded Nissin flashes

Edited December 2, 2021 by Simone_DF

[Guest]

Ok, I'm going to toss my 2 cents into this, I can't resist. 

I own the Summaron 28mm, had it now for a year or so and I do like the lens a lot not only for it's "look" but for the look of it too, for me it's a perfect Leica M sized lens........So would I get the TTArtisans copy, oh yes, in a heartbeat only I could find out where to buy or order one right now in the EU......and if they do come out with a black anodised or black paint copy I'd kneecap those in the queue in front of me to get to the head of the line.

Why would I seeing I have the Summaron? Well because the price is irresistible and frankly because I would want to encourage too people like TTArtisans, Voigtlander, Zeiss, 7Artisans and others to continue to produce affordable, good options for the M mount cameras. Leica lenses are very good for sure, well mostly anyway, but I have never subscribed to the "preciousness" that others lay at the altar of Leica, it's an expensive church to worship in and I have never truly understood why people would pay North of €10K for a Noctilux to photograph flowers or their cats, well mostly. Perhaps if I had a "Von" affront my surname I'd feel differently, but at least that particular Noct' does get a lot of use.

I have more than a dozen or so lenses for my M cameras, film and digital, half of which are Voigtlanders, bought not only for their lower pricing but for the range of focal lengths and speeds plus the overall great mechanical quality too. Of the TTArtisans I have none right now, though I did buy a 7Artisans 60mm MFT Macro lens for my GH4 to use for neg' scanning and for the €123,00 new I paid for it it's an outstanding lens, optically and mechanical build, heavy as heck so under the black finish it must be brass, or gold, built.

Oh yes, I'm also trying not to buy yet another M 35mm FL lens, Voigtlander of course. Why the hell would I need five 35mm M lenses?

[Dilo87]

Am 1.12.2021 um 02:50 schrieb steve 1959:

I believe TT artisans have raised the quality bar compared to 7 artisans

 

Both have very good lenses.

7A e.g. the 28mm 1.4 and 35mm 1.4 IF

TT e.g. the 50mm 1.4

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Gobert:

TT Artisan. They are good enough to make own designed lenses in stead of copies of old designs. I will never buy those, regardless how cheap they are.

The Optical Formular is, to my understanding, not a copy of the Summaron and why souldn't they design the lensbody in a way that it appeals to people? As long as they don't use protected designs i see no problem.

[Al Brown]

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According to the high res color samples made with the new TTArtisan 28 on a Leica M10P Darryl Carey has produced and left as a dropbox link  under the video (linked in post #77), the lens is blazingly sharp edge to edge and has a pleasant tonal draw.

I will compare the Leica and the TTArtisan 28 as soon as the latter arrives to this neck of the woods.

[Simone_DF]

31 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I will compare the Leica and the TTArtisan 28 as soon as the latter arrives to this neck of the woods.

Please do! I'd love to see a side by side comparison

[Al Brown]

2 hours ago, petermullett said:

oh yes, in a heartbeat only I could find out where to buy or order one right now in the EU.

The official importer for EU is Jo Geier of MINT & RARE in Vienna. The lens is here.

[Adam Bonn]

FWIW I think all these ‘cheaper than the Leica one’ off brand lenses (be that really cheap 7A or even hardly inexpensive just loads cheaper than the Leica option from Zeiss or CV) shouldn’t really be judged against the Leica equivalent…

Obviously it’s appealing to compare (say) the TT 50/0.95 or 1.4 to the noct/Summilux 50s, the TT 28/5.6 to the Leica one, but how is that really that helpful?

’you’ know to begin with that the comparison with almost certainly end with the conclusion that the Leica is better (either IQ, or size or tactile feedback or all three!) and that the price difference is larger than the quality difference…

So we just have to look at our personal usage cases and decide if it’s worth buying as a tool we’ll make good use of.

Every time someone makes a lens that resembles a Leica product in description the immediate response seems to be, wow I wonder if it’s the same quality as the Leica one?

The answer I think is no… 😏

In my head it’s not dissimilar to deciding between (say) a summarit 35 and FLE 35. The second option costs more and has better IQ, but the first option might be perfectly good enough for what you might want to use it for and/or your budget.

Mores lenses = more choices. This is a good thing.

(I have a 7A 50/1.1. I’ve some photos that I really like taken by it, but lord it’s a shit lens in many ways, and I think mine might be de-centred) 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

The official importer for EU is Jo Geier of MINT & RARE in Vienna. The lens is here.

Thanks Al.....ordered!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

FWIW I think all these ‘cheaper than the Leica one’ off brand lenses (be that really cheap 7A or even hardly inexpensive just loads cheaper than the Leica option from Zeiss or CV) shouldn’t really be judged against the Leica equivalent…

Obviously it’s appealing to compare (say) the TT 50/0.95 or 1.4 to the noct/Summilux 50s, the TT 28/5.6 to the Leica one, but how is that really that helpful?

 

No, not helpful at all........as my old friend Ronnie Lane used to say "it's the difference between scratching your arse or tearing it to pieces"....What's the point?

 

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

’you’ know to begin with that the comparison with almost certainly end with the conclusion that the Leica is better (either IQ, or size or tactile feedback or all three!) and that the price difference is larger than the quality difference…

So we just have to look at our personal usage cases and decide if it’s worth buying as a tool we’ll make good use of.

Exactly......

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

Every time someone makes a lens that resembles a Leica product in description the immediate response seems to be, wow I wonder if it’s the same quality as the Leica one?

The answer I think is no… 😏

In my head it’s not dissimilar to deciding between (say) a summarit 35 and FLE 35. The second option costs more and has better IQ, but the first option might be perfectly good enough for what you might want to use it for and/or your budget.

Mores lenses = more choices. This is a good thing.

Right.......

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

(I have a 7A 50/1.1. I’ve some photos that I really like taken by it, but lord it’s a shit lens in many ways, and I think mine might be de-centred) 

I have the Voitglander f1.1 50mm.........I also used to have a Noct' f1 too but sold it, ( at a nice profit ), because I really didn't use it. Comparing the shots taken with the Noct' and the shots with the VC, there's no real difference for me that matters. Like with the Noct' I still don't use the VC much but the financial difference makes it a lens that's ok to hang on to despite the few times it goes out on the M.

[Adam Bonn]

1 hour ago, petermullett said:

I have the Voitglander f1.1 50mm.........I also used to have a Noct' f1 too but sold it, ( at a nice profit ), because I really didn't use it. Comparing the shots taken with the Noct' and the shots with the VC, there's no real difference for me that matters. Like with the Noct' I still don't use the VC much but the financial difference makes it a lens that's ok to hang on to despite the few times it goes out on the M.

After the 7A i ended up getting a 50 lux asph!

I had 35 cron GAS for a while, but flipping the 35 rit and adding a big chunk of money didn’t appeal, so instead I bought the CV35/1.7 and other than the stupid shape, I’ve been very happy with it

Edited December 2, 2021 by Adam Bonn

[Guest]

I think comparison reviews are useful,very helpful and with some voigtlander lenses and zeiss lens the conclusion is that they are technically better than the leica equivalent and much cheaper.

Maybe the TT artisans lenses are getting near to voigtlander/leica level  now? 

The acid test is to take the price out of it all together and see which lens performs best technically  and "some" third party lenses are clearly better than the leica counterparts in that respect.

With the 28mm summaron they only need to produce an average lens that is soft in the corners and vignettes heavily so the bar is low in that respect.

Regarding rendering/character that is just subjective anyway .

Footnote ,i used to own the summaron but struggled with the ergonomics and slow maximum aperture but it does render images nicely in my view.

[ianman]

14 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

Regarding rendering/character that is just subjective anyway .

It’s not the rendering that’s subjective, it’s our individual tastes and perceptions that are. Much like you may find the max aperture too slow for your style and others don’t. It’s just down to what we need to get what we want. I think it’s earlier in this thread that I wrote that the price factor is irrelevant for me. If I couldn’t afford a Summaron, I wouldn’t buy this new lens just because it looks like it on the outside. The rendering/character is paramount in my view.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ianman said:

It’s not the rendering that’s subjective, it’s our individual tastes and perceptions that are. Much like you may find the max aperture too slow for your style and others don’t. It’s just down to what we need to get what we want. I think it’s earlier in this thread that I wrote that the price factor is irrelevant for me. If I couldn’t afford a Summaron, I wouldn’t buy this new lens just because it looks like it on the outside. The rendering/character is paramount in my view.

I agree that the rendering/character is all important but its more difficult to judge from reviews etc than pure technical performance in my opinion.

Also finding a nice lens that renders how you would like has nothing to do with who manufactures it i believe.

[ianman]

45 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Also finding a nice lens that renders how you would like has nothing to do with who manufactures it i believe.

Absolutely!

[jrp]

18 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

I think comparison reviews are useful,very helpful and with some voigtlander lenses and zeiss lens the conclusion is that they are technically better than the leica equivalent and much cheaper.

The trouble is that sticker price is not the only price that you should be considering unless you are cash strapped.  What matters is the cost of ownership.  If you keep the lens for 5-10 years, say, what is the depreciation; what could you sell it for?

In my case, I got a good few of my Leica lenses a decade ago, and they would now be so expensive to buy new, I that I think twice before taking them out.

If I got a cheap and cheerful Chinese knock off I would be less protective and get less satisfaction from taking pictures, but possibly slightly worse off in net wealth.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jrp said:

The trouble is that sticker price is not the only price that you should be considering unless you are cash strapped.  What matters is the cost of ownership.  If you keep the lens for 5-10 years, say, what is the depreciation; what could you sell it for?

In my case, I got a good few of my Leica lenses a decade ago, and they would now be so expensive to buy new, I that I think twice before taking them out.

If I got a cheap and cheerful Chinese knock off I would be less protective and get less satisfaction from taking pictures, but possibly slightly worse off in net wealth.

 

I take your point on diminishing value of third party lenses but why would you get less satisfaction with say a TT artisans lens? they seem very well built and metal like leica lenses.

I don't take pictures with my voigtlander 40mm f1.4 nokton and feel any less satisfaction than with my silver 50mm summicrom version 5.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jrp]

Take your point, but I find that things like M lens recognition by M bodies, as well as colour and rendition, help over time.