TTArtisan 28mm f5.6

[Kl@usW.]

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Am 22.11.2021 um 15:16 schrieb KFo:

Just say'n...

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”
        -Confucius, or maybe Sun Tu I forget.

Clausewitz ? 

[pippy]

1 hour ago, Kl@usW. said:

Clausewitz ? 

Hmmmm.....

Could be, Klaus, but most (all?) of the aphorisms I've heard attributed to Clausewitz were to do with aspects of warfare and not one AFAICR which considered commercial concerns. Still; I wouldn't rule him out completely as being the progenitor of the concept. Must do some research (but might it be going a bit off-topic?)...

Do you have any particular reason to suspect him as being behind the notion yourself?

Philip.

[NigelG]

I've just pre-ordered from B+H and will give an opinion once it arrives. I have the 28 Summicron v2 (maybe my most-used lens together with the Summilux 50 ASPH) but was looking at the Summaron to pair with my silver chrome M9M as a lightweight NYC walkabout lens...this would be a don't-have-to-worry-about-it cheapo alternative.

I had recently ordered a couple of other lenses directly from TT but FedEx now seem to have "lost" the package despite claiming to have tried to deliver it last Friday morning when they say " no-one was available or the business was closed".

Given that I live in an apartment building staffed 24hrs a day and with full camera monitoring logging every arrival plus a dedicated post/package room with a in-house scan-in system, that then emails me directly to confirm a package has arrived before they even try to bring it up, I pointed out that they were obviously "mistaken" ie they were lying re the attempt...something I'm used to from Amazon (🙄) but not FedEx.

I am now trying to initiate a claim but it has to be started in China by TT Artisan hence this time ordering from B+H...

 

FWIW I just ordered 2 (admittedly slightly exotic) M lens hoods from Leica Miami each of which cost more than this TT lens.

Edited November 23, 2021 by NigelG

[jdlaing]

5 hours ago, Gobert said:

Why not? Same factory.

What does the same factory have to do with anything? Different designs, quality, fit and finish. Different glass formulas.

[Guest]

Good choice by TT artisans to copy a copy of an leica lens  that is old but  very cute.

Modest optical performance but great looks and tiny at much less cost but much easier than copying a top class [technically] lens  like others in the leica line up.

Softish corners ,heavy vignette ? great news so has the original summaron and the copy!!

The question is does it produce nice but imperfect images like the leica reissue? if it does then its a winner as long as it can be marketed in the right way.

[NigelG]

I've been enamoured by the images on the Summaron thread but wonder if this is a clever move by a "copycat" lensmaker. Copying the 'flawed" ones is a lot easier as you're using modern manufacturing/design to ape a previous generation (or two) ago. Will they try a Nocti 1.2 "homage"??

[Simone_DF]

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7 hours ago, NigelG said:

Will they try a Nocti 1.2 "homage"??

https://ttartisan.myshopify.com/collections/full-frame-lenses/products/silver-ttartisan-50mm-f0-95-full-fame-lens-for-leica-m-mount-cameras

[cboy]

I'll wait for the black anodised version for this one😁

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[KFo]

I'd never really looked at TTArtisian lenses much.  It is informative to browse their page of full frame offerings.  They have been focused on the Summilux and Noctilux type lenses at prices 1/10 that of the Real McCoy.  This 28/5.6 clone is a definite departure from the apparent core of their business.  In fact it is their first 28, which is interesting given the popularity of the 28 focal length.  Perhaps it was the presence of an almost overwhelming array of 28mm lenses from prime makers (Leica, CV, Zeiss) that has put them off?  Or even more likely that they had been targeting fast glass where the price premiums are the largest with little concern with respect to focal length.

The Summaron is certainly a unique lens in the currently manufactured array of 28s in native mounts.  It looks like TTArtisians smells the opportunity here.  Even with my earlier criticism, I remain interested in how this new lens will compare to the Leica version.  I'm even more interested in TTArtisians next move.  Will they continue away from fast glass and begin mining the classic lenses, a 35AA for instance?

[Kl@usW.]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb pippy:

Hmmmm.....

Could be, Klaus, but most (all?) of the aphorisms I've heard attributed to Clausewitz were to do with aspects of warfare and not one AFAICR which considered commercial concerns. Still; I wouldn't rule him out completely as being the progenitor of the concept. Must do some research (but might it be going a bit off-topic?)...

Do you have any particular reason to suspect him as being behind the notion yourself?

Philip.

Philip, sorry. I was just kidding. But..thinking about it, you might find an appropriate quote for nearly everything in his writings. As in the writings of Confucius, Sun Tu, The Yellow Emperor, Mark Twain, Goethe, Lincoln, Macchiavelli..... 

[kerr_fly]

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[cboy]

I wonder if ttartisan will copy other vintage style lens like the 35mm summaron  f3.5 /f2.8😍

[a.noctilux]

6 minutes ago, cboy said:

I wonder if ttartisan will copy other vintage style lens like the 35mm summaron  f3.5 /f2.8😍

Why not, time will tell.

For me copy IS copy, never would be(have) like original.

Time will tell 😇.

[cboy]

46 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Why not, time will tell.

For me copy IS copy, never would be(have) like original.

Time will tell 😇.

I dont expect any lens copy will be as good as the original(except leica remakes). But if its 70-80% as good as the original at a fraction of the price then why not.

The vintage  lens were never perfect to begin with. The appealing factor to me is its size, compactness and stealthiness. Hoping for the black anodised version thankyou ttartisan!

[pippy]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

...For me copy IS copy, never would be(have) like original...

 

13 minutes ago, cboy said:

...I dont expect any lens copy will be as good as the original(except leica remakes)...

Just as a matter of curiosity, Arnaud and cboy, have either of you had a chance to have a good read through, and properly digest, the images in this thread?

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326477-summicron-352-8-element-vs-light-lens-lab-352-a-direct-comparison/

If so I would love to read your thoughts about the LLL Eight-Element as compared to the original.

Thanks in advance!

Philip.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[cboy]

Yep the ever popular LLL lens! I have followed ever since the RF forum. Unfortunately i cant say from personal experience as ive never tried the two. I was considering to get the LLL version but the supplier was a bit dubious given all the issues in RF forum.

I understand it the LLL lens/body was slightly changed due to fear that the lens copies would be rehoused back into original leica lens bodies and resold back as original.

There is some subtle tone & sharpness differences from early reviews

https://tahusa.co/lens-review/light-lens-lab-summicron-35mm-f2-digital-test/

https://tahusa.co/lens-review/light-lens-lab-summicron-comparison-lll-vs-original/

https://tahusa.co/lens-review/light-lens-lab-35mm-f2-summicron

My earlier point was that a lenses such as the summaron/ttartisan 28mm was not made to have the highest IQ. The combined character/ compactness make the lenses appealing. So having a copy that can do 70-80% of the original at the fraction of cost is enticing. Perhaps the LLL is more than a fraction now lol. Such lens were made for travel/lifestyle/street so high IQ is not what theyre designed to do. Id get an apo to do landscapes if i wanted high image fidelity.

Everything boils down to personal cost to benifit ratio imo...

I hope the new elcan will tickle peoples intrest when the reviews come in. Always in need for a compact fifty!

Edited November 27, 2021 by cboy

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pippy]

59 minutes ago, cboy said:

Yep the ever popular LLL lens! I have followed ever since the RF forum...

Thanks for the reply, cboy.

I'm not usually very interested in new releases of old lenses but the "8-Element" shoot-out did seem a bit out of the ordinary. FWIW in every comparison-test shown in the threads I've read I have always picked out the LLL images as my preferred rendering. "Strange but True" as they say. Had I not just recently picked-up an old 35 Summilux I might well have been tempted to get one for myself.

As far as the 28's are concerned you say;

"I dont expect any lens copy will be as good as the original..But if its 70-80% as good as the original at a fraction of the price then why not. The vintage  lens were never perfect to begin with..."

I may be proved very wrong once the new TT lenses have been made available but I'd predict that they will be either at the very least 'as good' as the original or, more likley, far better as TT have had some 70+ years of optical advance - in so many ways - and modern CAD-CAM to help things along.

Time Will Tell!

Philip.

Edited November 27, 2021 by pippy

[Guest]

Surely TT artisans would have a choice with the 28mm f5.6 summaron look alike?

They could make it as faithful as reasonably possible to the old design in the leica remake  style or simply make it technically better but not faithful except in looks to the original.

 

 

[cboy]

40 minutes ago, pippy said:

 Had I not just recently picked-up an old 35 Summilux I might well have been tempted to get one for myself.

I'd prefer that one aswell if I had the option to lol.

I'd hope the TTartisan would be better too, but I don't want to keep my hopes too high least get disappointed. I would still be happy even if it wasn't. Can't wait for others reviews on it!

[Capuccino-Muffin]

Each photograph taken with a cheap lens is a photograph not taken with a Leica lens. 

And I am not willing to do that. Just no.