Lina Bessonova et al. Restarting ADOX Film Production

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This is a very positive sign for the future of film and analog photography.  Lina (check out some of her YouTube vids), has recently married a gentleman who together have acquired the production equipment and trademark rights to ADOX and it's family of products, and is in the process of restarting film production.

This video is a bit disjointed, so bring your tolerance.  I support all efforts to grow analog photography, no matter how humble.

Lina Bessonova YouTube Video

The video is about 1/2 hour, but the comment section has time stamps for pertinent information.  I have followed Lina for some time, and find her to be a remarkable young woman.

[Chuck Albertson]

Interesting to hear how Fotoimpex/Adox came about. I'm down to my last couple of boxes of their MCC paper, so I hope they are able to get that line running again.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Chuck Albertson

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[ianman]

I had no idea they had stopped production. When did that happen? There was no shortage of supply here!

[250swb]

Adox film is already being made, my usual retailer has it in stock. It's a very convoluted video and I'm not going to watch it all the way through to find out, but I wonder if the phrase 'restarting production' simply means 'transferring production' to a new facility?

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

Adox film is already being made, my usual retailer has it in stock. It's a very convoluted video and I'm not going to watch it all the way through to find out, but I wonder if the phrase 'restarting production' simply means 'transferring production' to a new facility?

Could be as the Adox website is no longer available to access.

[Ouroboros]

I'd be very pleased to see the return of Silvermax if they have any plans to start production again.

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To be clear, it is the Efke branded films that are targeted for new production (discontinued in 2012).  The current ADOX branded films are made by Inoviscoat or Agfa-Gevaert, not ADOX.  The important thing to note is that a new film manufacturing plant is in the works.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Danner

[spydrxx]

Glad to hear about EFKE....they were a favorite of mine in the low speed category

[ianman]

2 hours ago, Danner said:

To be clear, it is the Efke branded films that are targeted for new production (discontinued in 2012).

Ahh, now it makes sense. Their B&W infrared film was quite nice.

[Danner]

9 hours ago, spydrxx said:

Glad to hear about EFKE....they were a favorite of mine in the low speed category

Toward the end of the video, he explains increasing ISO equals increasing cost, and that 100 ISO would fast in this effort.  It would take $$$ to speed up the ISO.  He's knows what he's doing and seems to know business too.  There's also a section where he says $8-10, maybe $12 retail  film is needed to keep the company healthy.  That applies to Kodak, Fuji and Ilford too, BTW.  It's risky for sure.  I wish them the very, very best.👍

[Chuck Albertson]

19 hours ago, ianman said:

I had no idea they had stopped production. When did that happen? There was no shortage of supply here!

From the Adox website, and over a year and a half old: https://www.adox.de/Photo/mcc-and-mcp-production-situation/

About the only Adox papers available in the US are their contact printing papers. Freestyle Photo, from whom I last purchased MCC paper, has been out of it for a while.

[Martin B]

From recent years and new film stocks made or revamped, a few things seem always the same:

- highly priced in the market especially after introduction
- differences to existing film alternatives are most often not justifying paying the extra surcharge in price 
- always a hype is created online

This said, I applaud if more film gets on the market with competition to bring prices down - but so far the opposite is created: the new stock films are high in price and do not make established brands lower their price at all (actually they also increased prices later). Sorry, but I am not going to spend up to $12 for one roll of 35 mm std B&W film! Maybe $9 for a special Rollei infrared film cartridge, but this is not happen all the time. I stick to known brands, buy 100' rolls of film, and roll B&W films myself. Brings down prices per roll below $5. 

[Helge]

You might not have any industrial background, so from your point of view tjis statement is somewhat understandable.

In reality the machines necessary to produce film are highly expensive, this asks for significant capital investments on one hand and potentially significant development costs on the other (not forgetting some regular maintenance of mechanical and chemical production equipment). These costs have to be „paid“ by a incredibly low volume of sold units (compared to the old times when prices like you are talking about have been around and millions of films of all kind have been consumed every year).

So we should be rather happy that there are still new players coming around to take the risk here. To still get a large variety of Film is IMHO a lot more important than discount prices.

12€/12$ for a film will not ask for any abstinence, this is still a reasonable price if the film is good.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Helge

[Martin B]

8 hours ago, Helge said:

 

12€/12$ for a film will not ask for any abstinence, this is still a reasonable price if the film is good.

Not for me. 

[Helge]

Probably not for everyone, that‘s right.

For people who have to count by the cent and who cannot afford a couple of €/$ more every month extra because this would be at the expense of food or school money for the kids pr other things of higher priority I agree fully. Usually Leica M owners are not prone to this issue, but you never know.

For me this is one of my favorite hobbies, so I can spend a couple of bucks more and I still will have a reasonable life.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Helge

[Martin B]

3 hours ago, Helge said:

Probably not for everyone, that‘s right.

For people who have to count by the cent and who cannot afford a couple of €/$ more every month extra because this would be at the expense of food or school money for the kids pr other things of higher priority I agree fully. Usually Leica M owners are not prone to this issue, but you never know.

For me this is one of my favorite hobbies, so I can spend a couple of bucks more and I still will have a reasonable life.

It is all about smart choices from a personal point of view where to vest money in and not how much money is available. I also don't buy expensive Starbucks coffee even I could afford and rather make my own. Same is true when we talk about Leica and the latest M10 series - could afford but find it simply too overpriced for my taste. Call me cheap, fine with me

[Helge]

You can‘t make your own film, we are all dependent on some crazy investors that take the risks.

Even if you can‘t believe it, films are not overpriced, most manufacturers live of their substance, most films are far too cheap for a sustainable survival of their manufacturers.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Helge

[Martin B]

43 minutes ago, Helge said:

You can‘t make your own film, we are all dependent on some crazy investors that take the risks.

Even if you can‘t believe it, films are not overpriced, most manufacturers live of their substance, most films are far too cheap for a sustainable survival of their manufacturers.

 

Nonsense. Film is much more in demand these days but you also admitted that more film is hitting the market. This should lead to lower and not higher prices! It is just that they all overprice (some more, some less). It's a niche market which dictates prices. Not paying a penny more for this than I have to. And if prices actually go to $10 per roll in general, I will all move digital. But go ahead and throw your money away for overpriced film stock, I am not stopping you.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Martin B

[logan2z]

39 minutes ago, Martin B said:

And if prices actually go to $10 per roll in general, I will all move digital. But go ahead and throw your money away for overpriced film stock, I am not stopping you.

This has been discussed a lot online already, but it's not necessarily clear that shooting digital is less expensive than shooting film. 

Leaving Leica to the side for a second, used film cameras can be bought for next to nothing these days.  Even a good quality prosumer camera like a Nikon FM and a 50mm f2 Nikon lens can be had for about $150.  Even in the case of inflated Leica M film camera prices, an M3 or M2 can be had for under $2K.  A decent M10 or equivalent is going to cost you closer to $5K, although you could pick up a Sony or a Fuji for quite a bit less. 

How about depreciation of digital cameras?  For what you'd lose in depreciation of your digital camera over a few years you could probably pay for a lot of film/developing - especially if you develop the film yourself at home.  The film camera you buy today will - in the case of Leica at least - be worth more than you pay for it down the road. 

What about image editing software subscription costs (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.) that you'll incur every month?  And the cost of computer hardware upgrades to keep that software running well?  How about a backup system for your photographs?  

Do you ever make prints of your photos?  Not much point shooting with state-of-the-art cameras and lenses only to post compressed versions of your photos on Facebook or Instagram.  So, you'll need to invest in a high-quality inkjet printer or pay a photo lab to print them for you.  The lab I've used for film developing in the past charges anywhere between $15 (low quality) and $45 (high quality) for an inkjet print on 11"x14" paper.  I can make a gelatin silver print in my own darkroom using very inexpensive equipment for about $2, which includes the cost of the high-quality fiber paper and chemistry.  Plus it's fun.

So yeah, you can go all-digital and avoid paying film costs, but do the math and go in with eyes wide open, you may find that you won't really be saving any money.

Edited September 4, 2021 by logan2z

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[Helge]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Martin B:

Nonsense. Film is much more in demand these days but you also admitted that more film is hitting the market. This should lead to lower and not higher prices! It is just that they all overprice (some more, some less). It's a niche market which dictates prices. Not paying a penny more for this than I have to. And if prices actually go to $10 per roll in general, I will all move digital. But go ahead and throw your money away for overpriced film stock, I am not stopping you.

As I mentioned, you might not have the technical background to understand the differences between a regular mass market like Smartphones, entertainment electronics or cars and a niche market like film and film cameras.

Even the increase in demand of the last years is far away from any sales volume of the high times >20 years ago.

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Film sales did still drop after 2011, now increasing on that very low level.

A lot of companies use old, basically inherited machines (living on substance), which allows still low prices (on the expense of sustainability, machines don‘t live forever) new players on the other hand calculate full costs of ownership.

In addition a lot of manufacturing steps and knowhow is located only at a few companies, a lot others (especially smaller ones) have to purchase those services, like punching or as raw components.

Prices for a lot of base components and chemicals have increased over the last years, since a lot of those manufacturers stopped producing or went out of business, leaving a few who act almost as monopolistic suppliers.

Last but not least, there are almost no scalability effects reducing manufacturing costs. Most manufacturers produce film in big chunks, produced in a short time (due to manufacturing processes still designed in the good old days), put them to the freezer and sell it over years (a Fuji Film you purchase today as „fresh“ might’ve produced 6 years ago). So even higher increase rates as today won‘t generate significant cost reduction potential, since the processes stay exactly the same.

There is a very interesting interview with Mirko Böddecker, Adox from 2013. He stated basically that considering that film sales is about 1/1000 of what it was in the 80s, prices did stay exactly the same (corrected by inflation effects) but too low for any investments, causing a reduction of selection and making the business only profitable for bigger companies. Today we see exactly his predictions coming true, production cost increases and new companies coming in, both asking for higher prices.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Helge