RexGig0 Posted August 30, 2022 Share #61 Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) When the 35mm APO was announced, I thought that 0.3 meters MFD would be a compelling feature, but, I no longer feel that to be so, for the shooting that I do with M cameras. I believe that I would be better-served by using a telephoto lens, such as 75mm or 90mm, from farther than 0.3 meters. If I would have to use the LCD, or an EVF, anyway, I could use a high-quality adapter, with a macro lens, made for another mount. Cost has become a much more-significant factor, since my previous post, in this discussion. I am retired from a career in public service, so, have less disposable, unless/until I start doing something that pays, or my larger retirement fund has a run of good fortune. So, of the two lenses being discussed, I would be more likely to acquire the Summilux FLE. In actual practice, I will probably keep using my Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 ZM lenses. Edited August 30, 2022 by RexGig0 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 30, 2022 Posted August 30, 2022 Hi RexGig0, Take a look here 35mm: Summilux FLE or APO-Summicron?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wdahab Posted August 31, 2022 Share #62 Posted August 31, 2022 I have loved having the 0.3 meter MFD, though I can see it as definitely unnecessary for many, especially film users. I feel, for me, it's a way to make the APO35 a more "universal" lens. I agree that there are lenses that can do certain parts of this better, but when I'm out and about I love that it's become a "use for everything" kind of lens. On M11 especially, the sharpness and bokeh at F2 is insane. Makes it so I'm now basically *only* carrying this lens for everyday use. But yeah, at the end of the day, it's crazy how sharp and contrasty and good the APO35 is in the corners. I bought this because a) I could flip it if I didn't love it and b) if I did love it, it seemed like it'd be the only lens I needed for the next 20 years (since I love 35mm). Turns out I was very, very right. This lens is great, and I don't think I'll need another lens for a long long time. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkoush Posted September 2, 2022 Share #63 Posted September 2, 2022 Continuing the comparison between the APO and FLE, here are two shots, identical exposures/settings, the first one with the FLE at f/2 and the second one with the APO at f/2. You can see the subtle difference in color saturation. These were not taken on a tripod, simply handheld. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318897-35mm-summilux-fle-or-apo-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=4501542'>More sharing options...
smkoush Posted September 2, 2022 Share #64 Posted September 2, 2022 (edited) Regarding the macro capabilities of the APO, it seems the magnification of the APO at its minimum focusing distance (MFD) of 0.3m is the same as the 90mm Macro-Elmar-M at its MFD of 0.8m (without the adaptor). Even though the magnification is the same, the transition to out of focus in the APO is much faster (due to the larger aperture) resulting in a completely different image. Below are two images demonstrating this, the first one with the APO at f/2 and 0.3m and the second with the 90mm Macro-Elmar-M at f/4 and 0.8m. The APO produces a much more contrasty image. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 2, 2022 by smkoush 5 6 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318897-35mm-summilux-fle-or-apo-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=4501545'>More sharing options...
smkoush Posted September 2, 2022 Share #65 Posted September 2, 2022 and for comparison here is the same scene shot with the FLE at f/2 and its MFD of 0.7m (showing the difference in scale provided by the APO). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318897-35mm-summilux-fle-or-apo-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=4501546'>More sharing options...
horosu Posted September 3, 2022 Share #66 Posted September 3, 2022 On 9/2/2022 at 4:55 AM, smkoush said: Regarding the macro capabilities of the APO, it seems the magnification of the APO at its minimum focusing distance (MFD) of 0.3m is the same as the 90mm Macro-Elmar-M at its MFD of 0.8m (without the adaptor). Even though the magnification is the same, the transition to out of focus in the APO is much faster (due to the larger aperture) resulting in a completely different image. Below are two images demonstrating this, the first one with the APO at f/2 and 0.3m and the second with the 90mm Macro-Elmar-M at f/4 and 0.8m. The APO produces a much more contrasty image. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! While the magnification of the APO might be impressive, the only real world use of it would be in photographing our dinner plates or the items we put up for sale. Or maybe plants and insects. The laws of perspective apply sadly also to a 7000EUR + lens: a nimble 90mm lens would produce a much more pleasing and natural portrait of a person. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 3, 2022 Share #67 Posted September 3, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 9/2/2022 at 3:55 AM, smkoush said: Regarding the macro capabilities of the APO, it seems the magnification of the APO at its minimum focusing distance (MFD) of 0.3m is the same as the 90mm Macro-Elmar-M at its MFD of 0.8m (without the adaptor). [...] Sure but f/2 would be of little use due to the thin DoF (0.01m). In that kind of pictures i would need a wider DoF, hence smaller apertures, whereas lenses like Macro-Elmar 90/4 or Ultron 35/2 asph can go down to about 0.4m (0.2m for the Ultron) when paired with a Leica macro adapter. The 35/2 apo doesn't need an adapter though. Same kind of advantage as the S-A 21/3.4 with its 0.4m MFD. However the 35/2 apo is significantly larger let alone its price so i'm not sure GAS will be strong enough for me. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted September 5, 2022 Share #68 Posted September 5, 2022 On 9/3/2022 at 5:29 PM, horosu said: While the magnification of the APO might be impressive, the only real world use of it would be in photographing our dinner plates or the items we put up for sale. Or maybe plants and insects. The laws of perspective apply sadly also to a 7000EUR + lens: a nimble 90mm lens would produce a much more pleasing and natural portrait of a person. Exactly why i thought getting apo was a better choice.. but yeah fle got the edge for being wider aperture Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintenschuetze Posted October 16, 2022 Share #69 Posted October 16, 2022 Welldone comparism 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted October 16, 2022 Share #70 Posted October 16, 2022 Am 3.9.2022 um 12:29 schrieb horosu: While the magnification of the APO might be impressive, the only real world use of it would be in photographing our dinner plates or the items we put up for sale. Or maybe plants and insects. The laws of perspective apply sadly also to a 7000EUR + lens: a nimble 90mm lens would produce a much more pleasing and natural portrait of a person. You are right in one way. But it jusr adds flexibility to the 35apo. I have used the short distance on a hike for plants, one might take an image just of the eyes of a person, or just any detail in daily shooting except faces (distorsion as you say). with 60mp you also have some capabilities to crop. So I feel 35mm has become close toma standard lens on my M than it was in earlier times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted October 17, 2022 Share #71 Posted October 17, 2022 F/1.4 sure is a nice thing ... but the Apo-Summicron-M 35 mm Asph clearly is the better lens (smaller, too). So when there's no need for f/1.4 then Apo-Summicron for me, please. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted October 20, 2022 Share #72 Posted October 20, 2022 Am 17.10.2022 um 19:38 schrieb 01af: F/1.4 sure is a nice thing ... but the Apo-Summicron-M 35 mm Asph clearly is the better lens (smaller, too). So when there's no need for f/1.4 then Apo-Summicron for me, please. Do you have examples please? To my knowledge your statement is not true when you accept apertures of f/2.8 or smaller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 21, 2022 Share #73 Posted October 21, 2022 I have no experience with either lens but Leica MTF diagrams look self explanatory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdukeron Posted November 18, 2022 Share #74 Posted November 18, 2022 Good discussion, and one always has to look at one's own photography. I feel that total sharpness doesn't matter as much to me as I thought after reading all those reviews, mainly because I shoot from the hip and rarely from a tripod. Once you use the tripod you can buy sharpness by stopping down. Good video above showing 2.8 is enough for most cases. I have the new FLE2 and was very surprised how sharp (in my eyes) the soft (reviews) open 1.4 is. Absolutely good enough for me. As a result I will now sell my 50mm 2.0 Apo and will stop my Noctilux 1.2 down when needed. So good advice here between the Hasselblad lines :)) Thx! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
odoomi Posted April 6 Share #75 Posted April 6 Thought I might reactivate this thread. I am a lucky owner of an FLE - and have the opportunity to purchase the 35 Apo for a quite good price right now (but would still be way more than I ever spent on a lens). So I am just doing the comparison for myself and trying to decide with which lens I should go on (owning both is out of the question cost wise!). One aspect which nobody is talking about is the following: the Apo has a strange distortion pattern at the edges - straight lines get drawn out of the frame in a curvy line. The FLE has also some pincushion distortion, but no where near the same as the Apo. For me, this looks like lens correction overshoot (a better word would be artificial?) and really makes me think if the Apo is really as flawless as everybody says. Am I nitpicking on that regard? Will this ever be an issue in real world use? Talking sharpness - the FLE is also quite sharp and contrasty with wonderful colors overall - even though towards the edges, the Apo has clearly the advantage. But again, would this ever be an issue in real word use? For me, the FLE is a wonderful lens, the Apo as well... however: I do not see the huge difference everybody is talking about. I am wrong and am I looking for the wrong things? Have a great Sunday! Andreas Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318897-35mm-summilux-fle-or-apo-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=5782475'>More sharing options...
odoomi Posted April 6 Share #76 Posted April 6 I was just browsing the web trying to find a similar picture - but did not find any. Maybe the point is that I am using CaptureOne with a generic lens profile - and the rest of the pack is using LR with a lens profile matching the lens and removing all the distortion? Maybe I am doing something wrong with my post in CaptureOne? Thanks for your heads up! Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiggiGun Posted April 6 Share #77 Posted April 6 To be honest, I have never noticed such (strong) distortions. This is certainly due to the fact that I use the Apo35 almost exclusively for landscape photography. The 35LUX is my workhorse for all tasks. I now have the new version (Close focus), I had the previous model for at least 20 years and was always very satisfied until it was stolen from me. The new one is a bit thicker because of the close focus option. It's a difficult choice, I hardly see any difference in the way I use the two. The important thing is that you are familiar with one lens. If I had to decide, I would keep the LUX. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkoush Posted April 6 Share #78 Posted April 6 From my experience (see the tests I've done comparing FLE/APO/pre-asph a couple of years ago on this thread) the main differences between the APO and FLE are two: 1) flatness of field (APO is sharp edge to edge across the entire field), and 2) color saturation in the APO is noticeably higher compared to the FLE. If I only had the FLE I would have not noticed these two differences by looking at images posted on the web. They only become apparent working with RAW files and looking at them side by side. Sharpness is similar (especially on axis), and is not the decisive factor for me. As far as distortion, the lens profiles in Lightroom take care of that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
odoomi Posted April 6 Share #79 Posted April 6 I am really speechless: just downloaded a trial version of Lightroom - there is NO distortion visible AT ALL... so this is a CaptureOne thing only 😞 no lens profile available for the Apo at present... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 6 Share #80 Posted April 6 Strange that a software is required to correct such a huge distortion. Not sure i would keep such a lens personally. YMMV. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now