M8 and the UV/IR Filter...a comparison image

[david strachan]

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It's been discussed before but for the newbies, or the unconvinced...Here are a couple of pics under tungsten light showing the colour of synthetic fabrics with and without the UV/IR filter using the M8.  At nightime you'll see those clothing made of "plastic" and other man-made fabrics. A similar  effect is seen in daylight too.

without UV/IR Filter

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with UV/IR Filter

both pics taken with M8 and Voigtlander 28mm f3.5 ltm

[jaapv]

Daylight:
Magenta blotches on Caucasian skin, Blue cast on African skin,  Olive greens on plants and trees; general Orange cast in bright sun, Green cast in shadows. Magenta rendering of synthetic black fabrics.

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[lct]

37 minutes ago, david strachan said:

It's been discussed before but for [...] the unconvinced [...]

If they are still unconvinced after 14 years there is little one can do for them

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Edited February 4, 2021 by lct

[Chuck]

I'm a newbie with the M8 -- have had it for just a few weeks.  I am awaiting the arrival of two free IR cut filters from Wetzler.  I think it's great that Leica still provides these filters to buyers of used M8s.  I learned of this from the forum. I simply supplied the serial number of my camera to Wetzler and they are doing the rest.  The filters are free, but I will have to pay import duty on them in the U. S.  Wetzler tried to have Leica U. S. sent the filters to me, but I never heard anything from Leica U. S.  Why did I buy an M8, since I already own a M9M and an M10? Simply for the wonderful and unique files created by the M8, as evidenced by the photos posted produced by the M8.  

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Wow, wish I had known that, bought a 39mm and 49mm B+W filters from B&H. Still forget to put them on the camera when I am taking it out. I will learn some day.

[84bravo]

On 2/3/2021 at 8:31 PM, lct said:

If they are still unconvinced after 14 years there is little one can do for them

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I've seen you post this photo before. I'm a firm believer in using UV/IR filters because there is a definite color shift and odd things happening with synthetic fabrics.

Tell me more about how this photo was made. I've never had such dramatic magenta color shifts without a filter. Auto white balance? Mixed light sources? There's a really weird sharp line of yellow on the forehead. Was this with the first firmware or one of the later ones?

[lct]

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7 hours ago, 84bravo said:

I've seen you post this photo before. I'm a firm believer in using UV/IR filters because there is a definite color shift and odd things happening with synthetic fabrics.

Tell me more about how this photo was made. I've never had such dramatic magenta color shifts without a filter. Auto white balance? Mixed light sources? There's a really weird sharp line of yellow on the forehead. Was this with the first firmware or one of the later ones?

Found it here or elsewhere on the web some 13 years ago but i have other ones like that if you wish.

[tom.w.bn]

If you like late autumn colours in spring or summer, just take photos without the UV/IR filter. I never liked the colours of nature without the filter. It was really hard to correct this in postprocessing.

[cobbu2]

I guess the only possible remaining question is if there's any adverse effects (either with the IR cut filter on or off) when shooting in B&W mode in-camera. In the past, there had been anecdotal remarks made that the filter degrades the M8's B&W image quality.

I've tried both and I couldn't discern any difference. Bottom line, I always leave the filter on, even when shooting B&W in-camera, unless of course I'm shooting IR on purpose with an IR filter.

[lct]

Only adverse effets i'm aware of are flare and ghost images in dark environment but this is true with any filter. Also the fact that the generally red color of the filter draws attention to the camera but this is another story.

[Volodimmer]

Hello, friends.
Recently became the owner of the M8. Completely happy. I shoot in DNG, color correction is not required. Then I noticed that black sometimes turns into an eggplant color. I read the forum and learned a lot about UV / IR CUT filters. I bought a filter (HOYA) and started using it. But with the color of the sky - trouble. He is somehow unnatural, poisonous. It is impossible to bring to pure blue. 
In addition, on a bright sunny day, an area of slightly changed color appears in some frames. Maybe it's a reflection between the filter and the matrix?
 In the end, I think, if this is a consequence of using a filter, then what is more important: a radical black color, or a more familiar color rendition?
 Have you encountered such a problem, or is it just my personal cockroaches in my head?

Sincerely, Vlad.

[lct]

A good UV/IR filter should not cause those color problems IMO. I have no experience with Hoya but you may wish to try a Leica, B+W or Heliopan filter. BTW IR contamination is not only a matter of blacks as all colors are more or less affected. Especially greens on foliage, as you can see below.

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[Volodimmer]

Hello, friends.
Recently became the owner of the M8. Completely happy. I shoot in DNG, color correction is not required. Then I noticed that black sometimes turns into an eggplant color. I read the forum and learned a lot about UV / IR CUT filters. I bought a filter (HOYA) and started using it. But with the color of the sky - trouble. He is somehow unnatural, poisonous. It is impossible to bring to pure blue. 
In addition, on a bright sunny day, an area of slightly changed color appears in some frames. Maybe it's a reflection between the filter and the matrix?
 In the end, I think, if this is a consequence of using a filter, then what is more important: a radical black color, or a more familiar color rendition?
 Have you encountered such a problem, or is it just my personal cockroaches in my head?

Sincerely, Vlad.

[Volodimmer]

Thanks for the quick response.
I have not collected statistics yet and am not sure of my conclusions. Just wanted to know if there are similar thoughts.

I will continue to take pictures.

[dpitt]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:54 AM, Chuck said:

I'm a newbie with the M8 -- have had it for just a few weeks.  I am awaiting the arrival of two free IR cut filters from Wetzler.  I think it's great that Leica still provides these filters to buyers of used M8s.  I learned of this from the forum. I simply supplied the serial number of my camera to Wetzler and they are doing the rest.  The filters are free, but I will have to pay import duty on them in the U. S.  Wetzler tried to have Leica U. S. sent the filters to me, but I never heard anything from Leica U. S.  Why did I buy an M8, since I already own a M9M and an M10? Simply for the wonderful and unique files created by the M8, as evidenced by the photos posted produced by the M8.  

I did not know that. Did the previous owner claim his 2 free UV/IR cut filters or not? If you got your pair after the first owner got his, then I think I am entitled to 2 filters too! It still is a great camera, and 10MP of this quality is really enough for my use.

Edited April 25, 2023 by dpitt

[jaapv]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:56 PM, Volodimmer said:

Thanks for the quick response.
I have not collected statistics yet and am not sure of my conclusions. Just wanted to know if there are similar thoughts.

I will continue to take pictures.

These are facts, not thoughts. 

[Anthony Miller]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:34 AM, dpitt said:

I did not know that. Did the previous owner claim his 2 free UV/IR cut filters or not? If you got your pair after the first owner got his, then I think I am entitled to 2 filters too! It still is a great camera, and 10MP of this quality is really enough for my use.

The previous owner of mine had claimed their filters so Leica denied my request. They will request a serial number of your M8.

[rtai]

This is why I like M8 no filter for b/w conversions. But sometimes I do like the original version more because color worked better for the scene. Then I need to take the chance a plain UV filter won’t ruin it. 
 

This shot definitely works better in color and as far as I can see only his shirt might have turned purple. 21mm Summilux.

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[david strachan]

5 hours ago, rtai said:

This is why I like M8 no filter for b/w conversions. But sometimes I do like the original version more because color worked better for the scene. Then I need to take the chance a plain UV filter won’t ruin it. 
 

This shot definitely works better in color and as far as I can see only his shirt might have turned purple. 21mm Summilux.

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A plain ol' UV Filter won't do anything.  Must be a UV/IR cut filter, for the M8 sensor to use its full colour spectral range.

However on your pic hard to say what a filtered picture would look like...if B&W probably won't make any difference. 

It's a matter of experimenting...then there is IR photography with IR filters on the M8...another fun experience.

...

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Look here: Leica M

[chris_livsey]

Don't forget IR is a part of the spectrum not an individual wavelength, the M8 IR filter on the KAF - 10500 sensor is around 50% effective overall but that masks the spectral response.

The BS7 filter used is very inefficient at blocking IR in the 750 -1000 nm range but better in the 700 to 750 nm range improving to 80% in our "visual" range so some subjects and lighting will react very differently than others.

420-630 >80%

700-750<5%

750-1000 <1.5%

Let's not go into the human perception at > 750nm it is complex and is a different mechanism than in the "normal" visual spectrum but silicon chips are not eyes and work very differently to present the output we see from them.

Bottom line: you can't predict the outcome particularly in "artificial" light or mixed light as the output of the illuminating source and how the subject reflects it, unlike sunlight, is not known, usually, but from the above wavelengths > 750 are going to "activate" the detectors out of proportion to lower wavelengths. This predicts the unpredictable results noted above.