50 mm 1.4 or F2

[Rick in CO]

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5 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Percentage-wise, the difference between 35 and 50 (43%) is much more than 35 compared to 28 (25%), and closer to 35 vs 24 (46%).  Of course percentages don’t necessarily account for perceived differences, user styles or preferences.

If you calculate according to angle of view it is only a 27% difference.  

With a 24 Mp camera the difference would give, upon cropping, almost the 18 Mp of the M9.  With an M10-R, well thats the whole idea about the Q2.

[Jeff S]

7 minutes ago, Rick in CO said:

With a 24 Mp camera the difference would give, upon cropping, almost the 18 Mp of the M9.  With an M10-R, well thats the whole idea about the Q2.

I know the idea, but never apples to apples;  DOF using a Q will always be determined by a 28mm lens. 
 

Jeff

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[Jeff S]

54 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

Oh, you misunderstood or I was probably unclear: I like the Q2 (that is true) after some starting problems but I would never get rid of my M. No way.

Oh I understood this...

On 12/1/2020 at 3:46 PM, M10 for me said:

That is why I like to go out with the Q2 instead of the M10. 

Not I.

Jeff

[lct]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

DOF using a Q will always be determined by a 28mm lens

In crop mode the Q has the same DoF as the equiv. focal length. At least it should but i have no experience with this lens.

[cboy]

To op, much like you i transitioned from fuji x system, and while i have an cron which suits my purpose i suggest its better to firstly try the largest aperture,  offering greater brightness and saturation of image to the sensor, then working backwards depending on your requirements.

50 f1.4 can produce beautiful results since the character of a lens is more pronounced at larger apertures. lux is definately more of a portrait style lens, but equally can be used as general purpose

If price is concern id suggest the ttartisan 501.4 or voigtlander 501.2 to try out the look before commiting to investing into the lux

All the best

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff S]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

In crop mode the Q has the same DoF as the equiv. focal length. At least it should but i have no experience with this lens.

No, it’s a digital crop, with same effect as cropping in post. A 28mm lens is a 28mm lens.

Jeff

[ktmrider2]

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My understanding is depth of field depends on image size.  The larger the image the shallower the depth of field.  If an image is 10mm high on the sensor, it does not matter if the image is made with a 20, 40 or 90 mm focal length lens.  The depth of field is the same.  If you enlarge the final image from a cropped sensor or even a large medium frame sensor, if the image is 10mm high in the final image  the depth of field is the same.  At least that is the way I have always understood it.

Edited December 2, 2020 by ktmrider2

[lct]

My understanding is DoF is based on CoC (circle of confusion) and CoC values are based (among other things) upon the area of the sensor, so when only a part of the sensor is used, CoC takes (or should take) this into account. Easy to check if you have a Q or Q2.

Edit: Just checked on two Q2 files. Exif data say 0.024mm CoC at 35mm i.e. about same CoC value as on APS-C (0.020) and 0.017mm CoC at 50mm i.e. about same CoC value as on 4/3 (0.015). 

Edited December 2, 2020 by lct

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, lct said:

My understanding is DoF is based on CoC (circle of confusion) and CoC values are based (among other things) upon the area of the sensor, so when only a part of the sensor is used, CoC takes (or should take) this into account. Easy to check if you have a Q or Q2.

Edit: Just checked on two Q2 files. Exif data say 0.024mm CoC at 35mm i.e. about same CoC value as on APS-C (0.020) and 0.017mm CoC at 50mm i.e. about same CoC value as on 4/3 (0.015). 

Ok, I think I stepped on a land mine by specifying DOF.  So, let me concede the error, but restate my basic point, which is that cropping a pic on a Q2 to simulate using a 50mm lens, will not yield the same rendering as if one used a 50mm lens.  Just like cropping in post won't do that.  The guys from Leica Miami discuss this point in the discussion below (see from about 1hr, 31 min.).

 

Again, a 28mm lens remains a 28mm lens.

 

Jeff

Edited December 3, 2020 by Jeff S

[lct]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

cropping a pic on a Q2 to simulate using a 50mm lens, will not yield the same rendering as if one used a 50mm lens

Should render like a 28mm lens on an 4/3 camera i guess.

[Rick in CO]

Sorry, I didn't mean to start a row.   My experience is that with even a 24Mp sensor one can crop from 35 to 50-ish  and still get a decent (13x19 printable) image.  Beyond that, SOL.

To OP's original question, if f1.4 is more important get the Summilux.  If not, get the Summicron or the ZM Planar if price is an issue.

[David_miller70]

Thanks everyone for your input, I am here and keep checking back in for new responses. I’m leaning towards the 1.4 lux because (a) I like bokeh in head n shoulders portraits (b) i don’t mind the slight extra size and weight (c) or cost and (d), and I am happy to be corrected on this, at F2.0 I assume the lux will perform a little better at than the cron which would of course be at max aperature?

However, my priority is a w/a so my lovely Fuji gear if off for trade in today and I have a 21 f3.4 on order.

Then comes the 50.

Best wishes, David

[Jeff S]

Best way to know of course is to demo (or rent easily if in US).

Jeff

[Ko.Fe.]

Head and shoulders bokeh is better done with correct placement of sitter according to background and light. f5.6 will do the person portrait, then. @f14 with lens, RF misalignment or miss-focus, it might became the portrait of the nose tip. 

 Also, it is third page and we still don't know which camera and which versions of lenses we are talking about.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Also, it is third page and we still don't know which camera and which versions of lenses we are talking about.

Jeff

[Rick in CO]

1 hour ago, David_miller70 said:

Thanks everyone for your input, I am here and keep checking back in for new responses. I’m leaning towards the 1.4 lux because (a) I like bokeh in head n shoulders portraits (b) i don’t mind the slight extra size and weight (c) or cost and (d), and I am happy to be corrected on this, at F2.0 I assume the lux will perform a little better at than the cron which would of course be at max aperature?

LensRentals in June 2014 compared some rangefinder lenses.  That was the conclusion.  However, be aware that just because one lens is f1.4 doesn't necessarily mean its bokeh wide open is better that some other f2 lens.  Also, do you want a super sharp portrait, or something softer and more glowing?  There is much previously written on this website about all of this.  

[evikne]

3 hours ago, David_miller70 said:

Thanks everyone for your input, I am here and keep checking back in for new responses. I’m leaning towards the 1.4 lux because (a) I like bokeh in head n shoulders portraits (b) i don’t mind the slight extra size and weight (c) or cost and (d), and I am happy to be corrected on this, at F2.0 I assume the lux will perform a little better at than the cron which would of course be at max aperature?

However, my priority is a w/a so my lovely Fuji gear if off for trade in today and I have a 21 f3.4 on order.

Then comes the 50.

Best wishes, David

I think you have already answered that question yourself. You want a Summilux (I assume you mean the ASPH version), so go and buy yourself a Summilux. It's a great lens, maybe the very best and most versatile Leica lens there is, so you will not regret!

Edited December 3, 2020 by evikne

[lct]

3 hours ago, David_miller70 said:

at F2.0 I assume the lux will perform a little better at than the cron which would of course be at max aperature?

At f/2 the 50/1.4 asph is less forgiving for little skin imperfections you or your models may not be keen to display. I mean the 50/1.4 asph, not pre-asph of course. Otherwise the 50/1.4 asph has more resolution at edges and corners, less flare and less CA. It has also less focus shift at around f/4 but it is not immune from field curvature like most if not all fast lenses at f/2. Among my own 50/2's and 50/1.4's, only the 50/2 apo does better there but it is not forgiving for less than perfect skins either. 

[Ko.Fe.]

3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Jeff

If OP is going to get Monochrome and money seems to be not fountaining from very deep pocket, rather than selling some Fiji gear, it might be advisable to spend most of money on newest those money could afford Monochrome. 

But even M9M should be able to provide enough of high ISO. Monochrome also renders Leica color rendering irrelevant. 

So it could be 21/4 and 35/2.5 Color Skopars and Nokton for 50 1.5.

Getting into bokeh close up portraits, with shalow DOF of f1.4 at closer distances for H&S portraits with nothing but RF patch in the middle might be not the best RF camera porpoise.  M model with LV, EVF support going to be better choice. IMO.

 

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Hallo,

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[Dr No]

f2.

There are few times when 1.4 is necessary or works. IMO.

Nice to have for when it does work though.

I shoot mostly around f2.8 - f8