Using flash anyone? Any recommendation?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Thanks Simon good to know what is out there that A mode shooters can use. i use these for events all the time. Monday i go to Florida to shoot a corporate meeting. The flashes get some heavy use for certain things but podium stuff i shoot with the spots on stage and no flash

[Jamie Roberts]

Ok, so before a very long shoot today it was off to my local camera shop to look at flashes for the M8.

 

Which did I think worked, and which was best? Here's what I found...

 

SB28 used ($149 CAD)

• Really nice flash, no doubt about it. I had one for my film Nikons.
  
• Changes ISO just like Guy says it does (when you turn it on).
  
• Thyristor Auto-Flash. However, just like the Metz, has a larger aperture limit as ISO increases, with the largest aperture at ISO 100 being f2.8. At ISO 640, f5.6 was the largest aperture possilble to select
  
• Worked fine with the Wein safe-synch on the M8.

SB800 at around $500 Canadian

• an even better flash than the SB28.
  
• You can change ISO on this very easily; just press and hold the center button and the flash goes into custom mode and you can select the ISO up and down (and everything else).
  
• In A mode, strangely enough, the SB800 has the same larger aperture limit as the ISO increases as the SB28, with the largest aperture at ISO 100 being f2.8. Largest at 640 is 5,6
  
• DOES NOT WORK with the safe synch, since the metal safe synch shoe interferes with the metal and contacts on the flash.

Canon 580 EX V2 (this is the very newest one, just out) $600

• Canon's cadillac--weather sealed, very powerful
  
• The Canon 580 EX v2 has a thyristor, and an A mode, unlike the 580 V1 or the 550, Canon calls it "E" mode. No fooling. Custom function 5-3 sets the flash to use the external sensor.
  
• You can dial in any aperture (from f1.0 up) and any ISO and the flash will compute the right amount. Exposure seems just about right with direct flash, and perhaps a stop down when bouncing (common enough with A mode).
  
• DOES NOT WORK with the safe synch, since the metal safe synch shoe interferes with the metal and contacts on the flash.

So with my CPS discount, and given I shoot other Canons, the 580 V2 was the hands-down choice for the M8.

 

I have to say this flash rocks. It works in A mode (which means it will also work with the DMR) at any aperture and any ISO and turns down nicely. It's a wee bit larger than the 580 and has a locking shoe just like the Nikons.

 

So that's the best flash I've seen on the M8 to date. But for the money, the SB28 rocks too. One change of a custom function and it's fully auto ETTL with the Canons.

 

I will electrical tape the safe-synch for now to use the 580 on the M8 and the DMR.

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks Jamie great report . So we have a few options besides the Metz 54 with the 3502. i have a feeling the 580 maybe a little smaller in size. The SB 28 is but of course does not have the horse power either. What has more power you think the 580 or 54.. The canon sounds pretty interesting

[Eikonphoto]

Jamie

Thanks ..... that's really very helpful. I have been wrestling with the issue since getting the M8, so it's nice to see some viable options (other than the Metz 54, which I hate)

I tried to switch the iso on the SB800 in the same way as the sb28, and of course it did not work, but now you tell me the trick, I'm looking forward to seeing some decent results. I would never have worked that out on my own - I picture some of the more techie of you on this forum sitting around pressing buttons alot - ha! Of course, we see the benefits of that.

I own several sb800's so I will test that today, but the Canon is sounding particularly interesting too.

Again Jamie .... as a fellow wedding photographer, I appreciate the help!!

Karen

[R.Costello]

I have the SB-26 which might be even a better choice for those considering the SB-28 / SB-28DX. It's virtually the same flash as the SB-28 but can also be used as a remote wireless slave. See these links - Speedlight SB-26 Specifications from Nikon Flash Guide & Speedlight SB-28 Specifications from Nikon Flash Guide

 

I have used it as a slave with my SB-800 (with my NikonD2X). I will get a Wein safe sync this week and check it out on the M8.

 

Richard

[Jamie Roberts]

Thanks Jamie great report . So we have a few options besides the Metz 54 with the 3502. i have a feeling the 580 maybe a little smaller in size. The SB 28 is but of course does not have the horse power either. What has more power you think the 580 or 54.. The canon sounds pretty interesting

 

Hey Guy--

 

For sheer output, the Metz's always seems to me to have the most "stuff"...

 

But on paper, anyway, the 580 V2 actually more powerful--it's (maximum, zoomed) ISO 100 guide number, in meters, is 58 (190 ft). That's pretty darned powerful; the Metz is rated at 54 meters.

 

The best thing for me about the Canons is that you can turn them way down in ETTL and now in auto mode too, though to be fair with the new wheel thingy it's awfully easy to dial in the M reduction you need as well. This really means a lot of control to balance different sources...

 

I might (might) pick up a used SB28 though too--it's a lot smaller than the others.

 

PS--Karen--you're very welcome! BTW--there is a handy-dandy reminder card for instructions for the SB-800 on the back of the white card you pull up for the reflector (at least, there was on the in the store). LOL!! But I am a geek--I read the manuals too!

[reynoldsyoung]

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Using a SF24D on the M8, I get a sync speed of 1/60 with the 50mm 1.4 and 1/250 with the Tri-Elmar 16 18 21...what's that all about? HELP!!!

[Evad1962]

"But on paper, anyway, the 580 V2 actually more powerful--it's (maximum, zoomed) ISO 100 guide number, in meters, is 58 (190 ft). That's pretty darned powerful; the Metz is rated at 54 meters."

 

Hey Jamie

 

You might be able to help here. Any ideas on getting more grunt out of the Metz 54? I'm in Oz where the light is often pretty bright (even late in the day). My problem is that using the flash in 'A' mode with a stofen diffuser, I'm frequently having to shoot with the M8 at apertures of f8 or f11 (for 1/250th sec ex.). I'm finding that with the diffuser mounted, the flash needs to be set at the same aperture as the lens to get a nice natural look from the flash, whereas without the stofen, having the flash set 2 stops below the lens reading (ie: 5.6 for f11) gives about the right balance. The point i'm making is the corresponding drop off in distance as you up the f-stop on the Metz compared to the lens on the M8. Once the subject is more than 4 or 5 M away, the effect of the flash is limited.

 

Do you have any suggestions for getting around this, and still being able to use the diffuser? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

Dave

[cbretteville]

Using a SF24D on the M8, I get a sync speed of 1/60 with the 50mm 1.4 and 1/250 with the Tri-Elmar 16 18 21...what's that all about? HELP!!!

 

If you, in the M8's menu have "Lens detection" set to one of the "on" choices and "Auto slow sync" enabled and are using a coded lens the camera will sync at a shutter speed close to the lens' focal length. My 28/2 syncs at 1/30 sec and so your 50 comes in correctly at 1/60 sec. I notice that my M8 with a WATE coded CV15 brings up a default sync speed of 1/250 sec just as yours. Leica may consider 1/21 sec too long for hand held shots and go back to the default speed of 1/250. Or it is a firmware bug. I haven't got a coded 21/2.8 to test with (yet) so I can't cross reference this. If you need slower sync speed, just use the shutter speed dial.

 

- Carl

[wlaidlaw]

Using a SF24D on the M8, I get a sync speed of 1/60 with the 50mm 1.4 and 1/250 with the Tri-Elmar 16 18 21...what's that all about? HELP!!!

 

Reynolds,

 

The easiest way may just be to go to the camera menu item "reset to factory settings" and then you will be sure of eliminating this problem.

 

Wilson

[cme4brain]

I just photographed a function that had very poor lighting. I used the SF24D on the Joe Demb flash bracket with the Nikon SC-17 cord (and a Wein safesync.) It worked pretty well. I was able to move the flash around on the bracket. I actually aimed it at the ceiling and bounced off the ceiling most of the time. (I also put a diffuser over the flash.), It wasn't as good as using my Metz 54, but I decided on the SF24D because I was going to be working for 6 hours and I didn't want the weight of the Metz and I also find the Metz very top-heavy and unbalanced on the Joe Demb bracket with the M8.

 

I would not imagine you need a Wein Safe-Sync when using the Leica SF 24D flash.

 

Thanks for the flash bracket advice- I bought one!

[cme4brain]

"But on paper, anyway, the 580 V2 actually more powerful--it's (maximum, zoomed) ISO 100 guide number, in meters, is 58 (190 ft). That's pretty darned powerful; the Metz is rated at 54 meters."

 

Hey Jamie

 

You might be able to help here. Any ideas on getting more grunt out of the Metz 54? I'm in Oz where the light is often pretty bright (even late in the day). My problem is that using the flash in 'A' mode with a stofen diffuser, I'm frequently having to shoot with the M8 at apertures of f8 or f11 (for 1/250th sec ex.). I'm finding that with the diffuser mounted, the flash needs to be set at the same aperture as the lens to get a nice natural look from the flash, whereas without the stofen, having the flash set 2 stops below the lens reading (ie: 5.6 for f11) gives about the right balance. The point i'm making is the corresponding drop off in distance as you up the f-stop on the Metz compared to the lens on the M8. Once the subject is more than 4 or 5 M away, the effect of the flash is limited.

 

Do you have any suggestions for getting around this, and still being able to use the diffuser? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

THe Metz 54MZ is a very powerful flash, needed for outdoors. I would not imagine that in full daylight, you would need much of a diffuser! You would want a 1:2 ratio for flash fill, and unless you are within 5 feet, a diffuser would cut down your flash power to the point as to not be useful. I have found (I am an amateur) that I don't use diffusers for daylight flash fill at distances over 6 feet as the full, un-diffused flash harshness is nothing compared to the harshness of full daylight.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

For fill outdoors i usually take the diffuser off with the Metz 54 to gain more power. here in Arizona the light is very bright so the more power the better

[Jamie Roberts]

For fill outdoors i usually take the diffuser off with the Metz 54 to gain more power. here in Arizona the light is very bright so the more power the better

 

Yes--not much to add here actually except that I've found in testing the effect of a stofen--other than cutting your light ouput--is pretty minimal anyway, and even less at a distance.

 

IOW, if you're a long way away you really do need to take your chances with the bare flash or devise a different lighting strategy (my usual choice).

[AGeoJO]

Jamie,

Thanks for the detailed explanation on the various flashes or flash options. Like you, since I am still using my Canon DSLR system, I will go with the 580 EX V2. I did't know it has a thyristor and you can used the A mode on that . I still have the first version that used recently mounted on a bracket with the M8. I regulate the flash output manually like you suggested earlier and the results are fine. However, the bracket setup feels too top heavy for my taste with the M8 although it feels just perfect for the Canon 1D series camera plus lens. I can mount the 580 EX V1 directly on the camera and it feels better but shadowise not as pleasant for vertical shots although I use a Sto-Fen.... Oh, well. Thanks again.

[reynoldsyoung]

Thanks, guys! Resetting doesn't get it...must be a firmware glitch. Still getting 1/60 with the 50mm and 1/250 with the WATE. Hmmmm??

[malcolm.mcintyre]

I've been occasionaly using Nikon SB800 and SB26 units on my M8 without a Safe Sync. Do you really think there is any risk? or having got away with it so far, will I continue to be OK?

[stunsworth]

The small flash that came with my Hexar RF works ok on the M8.

[sean_reid]

I don't like the 24D at all. It's weak and uses special batteries rather than AA batteries like all normal flashes. I'm told that it can be used with an off-shoe Metz cord, which is helpful, but I would never own one or use it for a shoot. On camera, of course, it can't move. I think that if it weren't designed to work with Leicas, no one would give it a second look.

 

Jamie's suggestion of the 580 is a good one. I own Canon flashes but with the M8 I use something even simpler that packs a lot of juice and can be dialed in manually - the venerable Vivitar 285. I have a Wein on the M8 and the remote sensor adapter in the shoe, the cord then goes to the flash which I hold in my left hand so that I can aim it anywhere I want at will. There's also a wrist strap so that it can dangle if I need to use my left hand, momentarily, to change focus, aperture, etc.

 

I need three things from a flash:

 

1. It has to work well off-camera.

2. It has to pack a lot of juice.

3. It needs to use AA batteries or a belt power pack so that I can keep it fed during long, intense, shoots.

 

In general, once one starts bouncing from behind the camera, there's rarely such a thing as a flash that is too powerful. Ditto for bouncing off the canvas ceilings of reception tents. Its easy enough to dial a flash down but there's no way to get more light from it than it can provide.

 

Cheers,

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yes and i run into 20 ft ceilings all the time at hotels when doing corporate gigs. So the stofen does help here because hitting 20 ft up on a straight bounce will not work very well. The leica 24d to me is a small fill flash outside and that is about it really and you have to be close